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Agreed. Also, LA at least does its own thing and is the entertainment capital.
But Chicago is basically 2nd fiddle to New York City in almost everything of significance that it does.
I don't think a city has to be the best in something to be "world class." I think it has to be very strong all around, though. Roger Federer is not the "best" at any one thing in tennis, but he's certainly good at everything, and doesn't have any weaknesses that can be easily discerned. Using that analogy, Chicago is kinda similar, imo. It's sort of the pre-2011 city version of Novak Djokovic.
No one will dispute that. But Columbia Heights is not a "showcase" neighborhood by any means. It's one of the better neighborhoods in DC, but that's because so many areas in Northwest (Shaw, Petworth, Ledroit Park) are so lacking in amenities. People in some of these neighborhoods get super excited when a 7-11 or Five Guys opens up. Is Columbia Heights better than what can be found in cities like Knoxville, Dallas or Minneapolis? I'd say so. But does it nudge DC any closer to being a "world class" city? In my opinion, no.
Well, I used to have go to the burbs to get basic living supplies. Now I don't. I'd say converting drug / crime ridden vacant lots into spaces to provide such basic services is a big step toward world class. You can have all the museums and symphonies you want, but if you don't have basic services you're never getting there. Just look at how much of NYC has Columbia Heights style neighborhoods you never hear about that allow people to stay in the city and contribute to its more "world class" destinations.
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What local flavor? To be honest, the place with the most "local flavor" in DC is the Wharf. I'm not sure how much longer that will last though seeing that DC seems determined to wipe away all of the local character in neighborhoods in favor of shiny, cold condo development.
I think you view "local flavor" as a native population with a common set of experiences. I love everything about the Wharf - perhaps my favorite spot in DC for a genuine experience -and am shocked that it hasn't been exploited to date given the sad fate of Seattle's fish market. The Wharf is a true "natives" destination.
Eastern Market caters more to the transient crowd that may move to Brooklyn before too long ( ) or weren't born here, but still make up a big chunk of our local culture, which happens to include people from all over the world.
Either way, both Eastern Market and the Wharf have significantly more local flavor and culture than Quincy Market.
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I didn't cherry-pick anything. For the most part, those are all considered the "desirable" neighborhoods in both cities. I just don't see how Georgetown or Dupont Circle could match up to Beacon Hill or Back Bay. Those neighborhoods (Back Bay/BH) have an elegance to them that really can't be found anywhere else. And they're denser than G-Town and Dupont and generate more pedestrian traffic.
Well, I'd have to see numbers. Georgetown has pretty heavy foot and vehicle traffic - certainly more than what I've personally seen the few times I've been to Newbury Street, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, boatloads of people don't make a neighborhood great. I mean, Tysons Corner attracts no shortage of people but it's a cultural and aesthetic wasteland right now that could be plopped in any suburban office park / mall district anywhere in the country from Indianpolis to Houston and indistinguishable.
The architecture, if that's what we're using as the baseline, is certainly not lacking in Dupont or Georgetown. They each, including Back Bay and Beacon Hill, have their own architectural history.
DC was also the capital of the most powerful nation on earth during the Marion Barry days. And during the Walter Washington days. And during the Sharon Kelly days. Yet there are few people who would say that DC was a "world class" city during those times. When the U.S. emerged from WWII as a superpower, Washington, DC was known as a backwater, southern town. So the presence of the federal government alone doesn't confer DC "world class" status though it will absolutely play a major role in earning the city that title in the years to come.
DC was also the capital of the most powerful nation on earth during the Marion Barry days. And during the Walter Washington days. And during the Sharon Kelly days. Yet there are few people who would say that DC was a "world class" city during those times. When the U.S. emerged from WWII as a superpower, Washington, DC was known as a backwater, southern town. So the presence of the federal government alone doesn't confer DC "world class" status though it will absolutely play a major role in earning the city that title in the years to come.
The stats tell the difference. The DC CSA is the 4th largest by population, 3rd largest by GDP and #1 by household income in the U.S.
8.6 million people live in the Balt-Washington area. This was not the case in the past, which is why DC is a lot more in the spotlight than it used to be.
BTW, this is not to say that DC can't learn a lot of things from other cities that are doing things right. That's obviously true.
Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 01-08-2012 at 02:33 PM..
I mean, Tysons Corner attracts no shortage of people but it's a cultural and aesthetic wasteland right now that could be plopped in any suburban office park / mall district anywhere in the country from Indianpolis to Houston and be no different.
Collectively, the two Tysons malls and Fairfax Square have better high-end shopping than anything within DC's city limits, including Georgetown, Friendship Heights, Penn Quarter and some of the specialty merchants in places like Dupont and Logan. In NYC and Chicago, the best shopping can be found in Manhattan and along the Magnificent Mile.
Granted, there's more to a city than its shopping, and a suburb can have excellent shopping and still be aesthetically ugly, but that's one thing that distinguishes DC from larger cities.
Collectively, the two Tysons malls and Fairfax Square have better high-end shopping than anything within DC's city limits, including Georgetown, Friendship Heights, Penn Quarter and some of the specialty merchants in places like Dupont and Logan. In NYC and Chicago, the best shopping can be found in Manhattan and along the Magnificent Mile.
Granted, there's more to a city than its shopping, and a suburb can have excellent shopping and still be aesthetically ugly, but that's one thing that distinguishes DC from larger cities.
Haha - you never miss an opportunity to defend your suburban dream. I never said anything about shopping. I said Tysons is a cultural and aesthetic wasteland that is indistinguishable from any other suburban office park / mall area in the United States. Everything you can buy in the Tysons malls you can buy in any upscale major city suburban mall so I don't see how that distinguishes DC.
edit: please don't tell me how naive I am because of some great Korean restaurant in a strip mall somewhere nearby.
The stats tell the difference. The DC CSA is the 4th largest by population, 3rd largest by GDP and #1 by household income in the U.S.
8.6 million people live in the Balt-Washington area. This was not the case in the past, which is why DC is a lot more in the spotlight than it used to be.
BTW, this is not to say that DC can't learn a lot of things from other cities that are doing things right. That's obviously true.
I get that you love this area for its power, but I'm not sure having the highest income in a region that doesn't actually produce much of anything is really something to be proud of.
I also don't think an arbitrary CSA delineation linking Baltimore and DC as if they're one contiguous economic region really tells the story of this area.
Haha - you never miss an opportunity to defend your suburban dream. I never said anything about shopping. I said Tysons is a cultural and aesthetic wasteland that is indistinguishable from any other suburban office park / mall area in the United States. Everything you can buy in the Tysons malls you can buy in any upscale major city suburban mall so I don't see how that distinguishes DC.
edit: please don't tell me how naive I am because of some great Korean restaurant in a strip mall somewhere nearby.
It's not the high-end merchandise in Tysons that distinguishes DC in this regard; it's the lack of such venues in DC itself. It does go to the broader fact that DC is now less of the hub of the region in which it sits than is the case with NYC and Chicago.
Shopping usually is viewed as one aspect of cultural amenities. Maybe you're an aesthete for whom this doesn't apply, in which case you're well suited (or, perhaps more likely, "ill-suited") for DC living.
Ha Ha on the Korean, though. In NYC you can get the great Korean food and atmosphere in the "Little Seoul" area near Penn Station in Manhattan, Queens, or Fort Lee NJ. In this area, you pretty much have to go to Annandale or Centreville.
The stats tell the difference. The DC CSA is the 4th largest by population, 3rd largest by GDP and #1 by household income in the U.S.
8.6 million people live in the Balt-Washington area. This was not the case in the past, which is why DC is a lot more in the spotlight than it used to be.
BTW, this is not to say that DC can't learn a lot of things from other cities that are doing things right. That's obviously true.
DC became what it is today based on what was done back in the Clinton Admin. Consolidate Govt Functions into the capital. The hope was for greater synergy and lessor cost. The result was a hugely subsidized economy which runs at EXTREME excess. DC in it success is in someways a constant reminder of this failed experiment. I like DC and resided in the city for a number of years but the success of DC has been most driven by the backs of every American taxpayer and IMHO a failed experiment. Higher costs and lower synergies. I say cut the Fed and diversify the govt outside of the beltway (or extended beltway as it is today). The last 20 years have been worse for everyplace in America with the exception of DC, enough is enough...
It's not the high-end merchandise in Tysons that distinguishes DC in this regard; it's the lack of such venues in DC itself. It does go to the broader fact that DC is now less of the hub of the region in which it sits than is the case with NYC and Chicago.
Shopping usually is viewed as one aspect of cultural amenities. Maybe you're an aesthete for whom this doesn't apply, in which case you're well suited (or, perhaps more likely, "ill-suited") for DC living.
Ha Ha on the Korean, though. In NYC you can get the great Korean food and atmosphere in the "Little Seoul" area near Penn Station in Manhattan, Queens, or Fort Lee NJ. In this area, you pretty much have to go to Annandale or Centreville.
I wasn't saying shopping isn't part of the cultural amenities. I was saying that there's nothing unique about Tysons that you couldn't find outside Indianapolis. In contrast, Logan Circle, Dupont, Capitol Hill, and (decreasingly) Georgetown offer unique amenities.
I don't think it's any secret that DC lost its mantle as the cultural / economic center of the region long ago as white flight and other cultural shifts drove much of the wealth out of the city.
The story now is how rapidly DC has reclaimed a foothold in the region, which is why people are even asking whether it could be "the next NYC", but it's certainly not the premiere shopping destination like Chicago or New York or Rodeo Drive possess. If Friendship Heights were downtown or even not split between MD and DC, we could possibly begin to make a comparision in the way that people suggest Chinatown is a tiny Times Square.
Last edited by Bluefly; 01-08-2012 at 03:54 PM..
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) or weren't born here, but still make up a big chunk of our local culture, which happens to include people from all over the world.
