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I grew up in those parts. I remember the Fort Washington (the fort) when it was pretty much overgrown and appeared abandoned.
During WW2 there were German POWs housed there working the land. I remember the old cannons deeply embedded in the ground at Fort Foot. I also remember the old ship that the Navy owned that was sunk in Smoot Bay (the cove in which NH resides) with its mast sticking up out of the water.
I'm pretty sure much of that land NH sits on used to belong to the Hanson Family, John Hanson and sons (rebuilt Mansion just blocks away now called Oxon Hill Manor. was targeted to be the Vice President's mansion. It used to be the Secretary of Defense home and rumor has it that the D day invasion may have been hatched there. The likes of Winston Churchhill and other high ranking officials visited the mansion during WW2.
It is said, somewhere among the hills along the Potomac, near the mansion, John Hanson's grave resides, but to this day has not been located.
That's incredible...In fact, I didn't even know there were even Axis POWs here in the DC area back then.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,565,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Well, I really don't think people will think of National Harbor when they think of DC around the world. They will, however, think about the Wharf, the Yards, and Georgetown when they're all completely built out.
Actually I firmly disagree, if someone from Tokyo comes and stays at the Wharf during their visit, when they go home their unlikely to mention to friends about the Wharf in DC hand how great it is, just how much the city has to offer. They will however, be more inclined to say "Oh wow I remember when I stayed at that MGM hotel/casino in National Harbor outside DC." Not because of it's location at National Harbor, but because of that MGM name brand. Like I said earlier your grossly underestimating the addition of that casino. The Wharf will not have any single brand name amenity as strong as MGM....
Although I do agree as an urban city amenity it will add to the fabric of options in the downtown/ sw core which I love about it.
Actually I firmly disagree, if someone from Tokyo comes and stays at the Wharf during their visit, when they go home their unlikely to mention to friends about the Wharf in DC hand how great it is, just how much the city has to offer. They will however, be more inclined to say "Oh wow I remember when I stayed at that MGM hotel/casino in National Harbor outside DC." Not because of it's location at National Harbor, but because of that MGM name brand. Like I said earlier your grossly underestimating the addition of that casino. The Wharf will not have any single brand name amenity as strong as MGM....
Although I do agree as an urban city amenity it will add to the fabric of options in the downtown/ sw core which I love about it.
If we really want to get a comparison going which I have avoided because I thought it was unfair to the National Harbor, the two developments are really different actually. The Wharf comes right up to the water. The National Harbor doesn't. The National Harbor doesn't have any nice restaurants right now. MGM will help that, but as I said, I would need to take a shuttle to get to those. The Wharf just like most places in DC will be filled with chef driven restaurants from iron chefs across the country. There are no performance spaces compared to what is going into the Wharf. There is no fish market either. What is there to compare? The distance from tangor outlets to the National Harbor is further than the National Mall from the Wharf.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 03-22-2014 at 05:19 PM..
Actually I firmly disagree, if someone from Tokyo comes and stays at the Wharf during their visit, when they go home their unlikely to mention to friends about the Wharf in DC hand how great it is, just how much the city has to offer. They will however, be more inclined to say "Oh wow I remember when I stayed at that MGM hotel/casino in National Harbor outside DC." Not because of it's location at National Harbor, but because of that MGM name brand. Like I said earlier your grossly underestimating the addition of that casino. The Wharf will not have any single brand name amenity as strong as MGM....
Although I do agree as an urban city amenity it will add to the fabric of options in the downtown/ sw core which I love about it.
I think you're vastly overestimating the connection the MGM casino will have with the National Harbor waterfront. Casinos are the single most isolated, exclusionary attraction a area can have. They're designed to provide everything their guests need within their walls. The fact that we're having this discussion shows how disconnected people really are with how development and urban planning works. That is not meant to be an insult to you, just an observation of a few people in this thread. A casino is exactly what you don't want in a city because it doesn't add vibrancy to the street. The guests stay inside for the most part. That's is especially true in an isolated area like where the MGM casino is being built. It will be amazing, but it will be exclusionary and will not help the urban fabric which is sad for anybody thinking people will be walking down the highway toward National Harbor.
Will there a be a shuttle? Sure, but how
many people will be coming to MGM to go to National Harbor as well? Let's be realistic.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,565,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
I think you're vastly overestimating the connection the MGM casino will have with the National Harbor waterfront. Casinos are the single most isolated, exclusionary attraction a area can have. They're designed to provide everything their guests need within their walls. The fact that we're having this discussion shows how disconnected people really are with how development and urban planning works. That is not meant to be an insult to you, just an observation of a few people in this thread. A casino is exactly what you don't want in a city because it doesn't add vibrancy to the street. The guests stay inside for the most part. That's is especially true in an isolated area like where the MGM casino is being built. It will be amazing, but it will be exclusionary and will not help the urban fabric which is sad for anybody thinking people will be walking down the highway toward National Harbor.
Will there a be a shuttle? Sure, but how
many people will be coming to MGM to go to National Harbor as well? Let's be realistic.
This makes absolutely no sense, then why are they building a casino in Downtown Baltimore?? Again no one here has mentioned NH being a better place of "urbanity" or connectivity to a major city. Just simply comparing amenities specifically WITHIN the two very different developments. It will most definitely be a shuttle, most likely to and from other destinations in the harbor, I'd also expect to and from Alexandria and Metro...People already come to the harbor now, why else would they add the Ferris Wheel as another attraction? They want to keep giving people a reason to visit.
Last edited by the resident09; 03-22-2014 at 06:42 PM..
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,565,972 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
If we really want to get a comparison going which I have avoided because I thought it was unfair to the National Harbor, the two developments are really different actually. The Wharf comes right up to the water. The National Harbor doesn't. The National Harbor doesn't have any nice restaurants right now. MGM will help that, but as I said, I would need to take a shuttle to get to those. The Wharf just like most places in DC will be filled with chef driven restaurants from iron chefs across the country. There are no performance spaces compared to what is going into the Wharf. There is no fish market either. What is there to compare? The distance from tangor outlets to the National Harbor is further than the National Mall from the Wharf.
The Sunset Room at National Harbor, to Tanger Outlets 1.5 miles 4 mins
Washington Kastles Stadium, to US Capitol 1.4 miles 4 mins
They are the basically the same distance and take the same amount of time between the two. Again I was the one saying this comparison is not apples to apples, I also stated earlier the edge goes to the Wharf with the closeness/ intimacy to the water. No one has disputed that, but you are disputing that a billion dollar casino, and already established 2,000 room hotel and convention center, plus over 85 stores and shops within the outlet center are some how not amenities to NH as if they have no impact.
The Sunset Room at National Harbor, to Tanger Outlets 1.5 miles 4 mins
Washington Kastles Stadium, to US Capitol 1.4 miles 4 mins
They are the basically the same distance and take the same amount of time between the two. Again I was the one saying this comparison is not apples to apples, I also stated earlier the edge goes to the Wharf with the closeness/ intimacy to the water. No one has disputed that, but you are disputing that a billion dollar casino, and already established 2,000 room hotel and convention center, plus over 85 stores and shops within the outlet center are some how not amenities to NH as if they have no impact.
Come on man. The US Capitol is at the end of the Mall. The National Mall is about .5 miles from the Wharf. It doesn't matter anyway. We both know local people that will be going to the Wharf will probably not be going to National Harbor at all. You know how many people in the city feel about going to things outside of the city in the suburbs. They will both be good so it's cool. Just different audiences. Will they go to MGM? Yes, however, I doubt many people in the city will be also going to National Harbor. For the record, I like National Harbor, it's just in the suburbs.
This makes absolutely no sense, then why are they building a casino in Downtown Baltimore?? Again no one here has mentioned NH being a better place of "urbanity" or connectivity to a major city. Just simply comparing amenities specifically WITHIN the two very different developments. It will most definitely be a shuttle, most likely to and from other destinations in the harbor, I'd also expect to and from Alexandria and Metro...People already come to the harbor now, why else would they add the Ferris Wheel as another attraction? They want to keep giving people a reason to visit.
I like the National Harbor. It's just in the suburbs.
Visitors who come to DC never travel to National Harbor to see what is out there. People who travel to National Harbor wonder what Washington DC has to offer. National Harbor deliberately makes it difficult for people visiting to go elsewhere. It's a destination resort and will compete for conventions primarily among those who lack the experience to understand that a convention trip to National Harbor does not include any visits to DC.
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