09-09-2007, 02:34 PM
4 posts, read
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My wife and I are considering buying a recreational property on the Washington coast. We're retired and would like a place to spend about 1/4 of the time throughout the year. It has to offer beach walks, cycling, nice scenery and modern conveniences (we just sold a place that was very isolated, so we're ready for something different). Ocean Shores could be interesting and we're meeting a realtor there at the end of September to look at properties. I've looked through this forum and others for potential negatives about Ocean Shores, and I've seen some conflicting opinions, so I'll summarize my questions here and I would appreciate any opinions.
I understand Ocean Shores has about 12,000 lots, with only 40% of them developed. There are well over 300 houses for sale in Ocean Shores, which means more then 5% of the place is up for sale. That seems like an awful lot, in spite of the overall downturn in the US housing market. Is there an exodus (and why), or is this normal or slightly higher than normal turnover?
The weather is characterized as "lousy" all the time, but then the summers are claimed to be fabulous from April through September/October. It can't be both!
Ocean Shores apparently gets 3 million tourists per year. Where do they all stay? There are only 1000 hotel rooms and fewer than 5000 houses. Are the beaches open for camping/RV'ing?
Speaking of beaches, I understand driving on the beach is permitted. What does that do to the quality of the beach experience? Do the beaches become ocean side parking lots in the summer?
I've read that Ocean Shores is not pedestrian friendly. Is this because of traffic volume, or because it's spread out?
I've also read the Ocean Shores has had big problems in the past with beach erosion. has this been mitigated?
I understand the lakes and canals are man-made. Do they have an ingress/egress, or are they basically stagnant repositories of rainwater?
Thanks for any and all input.
09-09-2007, 03:54 PM
Location: Washington Coast, Grays Harbor County
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Reputation: 149
Ocean Shores is not my favorite beach town
Hi Nick,
I live in Westport, which is a little beach/marina town across of Grays Harbor from Ocean Shores, and am very familiar with all of the Grays Harbor coast, which we looked at before we moved to Westport (we live full time, professional couple in our 30's, that wanted to escape the rat race of Seattle, but telecommute to jobs in the City). I have a strong opinion against Ocean Shores, and I am going to try to answer your questions point by point:
(1) Why so many houses for sale? The evolution of Ocean Shores was that those 12,000 lots began as campsites, and there was very poor planning with mega mansions going up next to trailer sites. So a lot of people are not finding a cohesive community. Also, there are a lot of opportunities opening up along the Coast in Westport and Seabrook and people are choosing to move their investment/second homes to more attractive communities.
(2) You can look at the statistics and see that the weather is mild compared to inland - you are looking at high 40's in the winter and low 60's in the summer - on average. You are looking at rainy/cloudy from November through March on average, and sunny Mid June - Mid september, with a very variable shoulder season. But, you also get wierd weather fluctuations - for example last February, we had a week of 70-degree weather. This April we had 3 days of 70-degree weather. This July was wetter than usual. So it just is unpredictable, like the sea (as cheesy as that may sound). A typical summer day will wake up foggy and then the fog will burn off by mid day. Today is downright hot.
(3) The majority of Ocean Shores visitors are day visitors (and that number has jumped up to 4M a year). There are some beach campgrounds, but there is no camping on the public beaches.
(4) I think driving on the beaches sucks. During the summer, ocean shores beaches are packed like coney island, with hoards of people, horses, cars and its just filthy. In Westport, from the Jetty about 3 miles South, there is no driving allowed and its much much nicer.
(5) There is no downtown core and the infrastructure (sidewalks/roads suck for walking and cycling).
All of these amenities are much nicer in Westport, which is why we picked Westport over Ocean Shores. You can PM me for any info. Definitely check out Seabrook and Westport when you come out, I can recommend a great real estate agent, too.
Good luck!
09-09-2007, 05:11 PM
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A little history...in the 1960's developers planned a large, upscale development for Ocean Shores with upper-end homes, professional golf course, and even high-rise hotels.
Guess what? Never happened. Not sure why, but the Puget Sound economy went south in the early 70's, and slowly many discovered the weather and scenery were better in other locations, especially the Oregon Coast. More recently a lot of property has been sold on speculation to unknowing Californians who saw "coastal bargains".
Today, there are a few decent motels, a small town center, a mish-mash of mostly middle to lower-middle class homes, and yes trailer parks. A dream never quite realized.
09-09-2007, 10:31 PM
Location: Washington Coast, Grays Harbor County
199 posts, read
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Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pw72
A little history...in the 1960's developers planned a large, upscale development for Ocean Shores with upper-end homes, professional golf course, and even high-rise hotels.
Guess what? Never happened. Not sure why, but the Puget Sound economy went south in the early 70's, and slowly many discovered the weather and scenery were better in other locations, especially the Oregon Coast.
I would disagree that people found that the weather and scenery are better in Oregon... the beaches are very similar... I have spent a lot of time in Oregon and Washington... my opinion is that the Oregon coastal communities embraced tourism and the related industries (retail, hospitality, art) sooner, whereas the Washington coastal communities were very glued to fishing and timber, and hospitality/tourism was a far distant second.
The weather and scenery is almost identical.
09-09-2007, 10:41 PM
3,969 posts, read
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We'll, the beaches are similar but the mountain backdrops are much better in Oregon. I agree, Oregon took advantage of the tourism dollars in a much more efficient manner. My main point is that Ocean Shores once had great ambitions of being the "Atlantic City" of the Northwest. Something went terribly wrong.
09-10-2007, 10:29 AM
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My son just got back from Ocean Shores and he was very disapointed. Folks there drive on the beaches, something that he had trouble accepting for obvious reasons. Also, he commented on the horse and dog feces and trash everywhere.
He has traveled a lot, and the beaches at Ocean Shores were dirtier than any he has seen anywhere, including Mexico.
09-10-2007, 10:49 AM
Location: Washington Coast, Grays Harbor County
199 posts, read
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Reputation: 149
Another quick note on the weather
Nick,
Just to let you know, it was over 80 degrees yesterday, and they are forecasting 81 today here in Westport (and all along the coast), which is just another speck in the "beach weather is so weird" category.
Don't get discouraged about all the negative feedback you are getting - there are a lot of nice communities along the coast - Ocean Shores is just not one of them. When you come down to meet with your realtor, spend a few hours with that person, but also take the time to visit Westport, Grayland, Tokeland, and maybe Seabrook.
You didn't talk too much about what exactly you are looking for, but the coast has a lot of diversity in communities, and there are some real gems out there that are virtually undiscovered.
You can check out my blog at
Discovering Westport for some more detailed info and photos of the Westport/Grayland/Tokeland area. I have lived all over the western US (Hawaii, Los Angeles, Seattle) and I think Washington's coastline has a lot to offer!
Good luck!
09-10-2007, 10:18 PM
3,969 posts, read
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Reputation: 1576
Hey, I agree...a few years ago I took 101 north up to Queets...what a beautiful, undiscovered part of the WA coast! Then further east, Lake Crescent is another fantastic area that a lot of people have heard of but have never been. I guess it is just a matter of time before this area becomes "discovered", despite the less than ideal winter weather. Further south, the old lumber town of Raymond has a lot of potential, and Westport, Long Beach, and yes, Seabrook, all could become new meccas for retirees. So much potential...What about Seaview and Ocean Park? Not as familiar with those areas.
Last edited by pw72; 09-10-2007 at 10:26 PM ..
09-11-2007, 08:36 AM
Location: Ocean Shores, WA
5,092 posts, read
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Reputation: 10865
Ocean Shores:
People: about 5,000 of them. Most retired. The ones who work make their money from developing the area, servicing the residents, or hustling the tourists who descend like locusts on the area, drive like maniacs up and down the beach and leave the beach littered with their trash and filth.
Climate: Rain, Fog, Clouds, Wind most of the time.
Crime: Not much, but growing.
Schools: There is a new Elementary School. It ranks rather low in academic standing.
Culture: A few bars, a movie theatre, a smoke filled casino, and a couple of churches.
Shopping: There is a grocery store, a hardware store, and a building supply in Ocean Shores. For shopping other than that, Aberdeen is 25 miles away.
Medical services: Sparse and of poor quality. Nearest "good" hospital is in Olympia. The locals have a saying, "I would rather die in the ambulance on the way to Olympia than in the ER at Aberdeen." Serious medical problems are evacuated by helicopter to Seattle. You had better have good medical coverage to pay for it. But, Ocean Shores does have a good veterinarian.
Real estate: Values are inflated even though there is a surplus of properties on the market. Taxes are high and getting higher. A new LID to pay for street repair is about to go into effect that will cost each property owner about $5,000.
Utilities: Drinking water in Ocean Shores is considered some of the worst tasting in the state, and the cost among the highest priced.
Politics: The City Council represents the real estate developers, not the residents.
Other than that, it's a good place to live.
09-11-2007, 09:38 AM
Location: Edmonds, WA
223 posts, read
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Reputation: 92
My wife and I love going to the beaches on the Washington and Oregon coasts on a regular basis and Ocean Shores is at the very bottom of our list of places to go. There is literally nothing to do there. There is no scenery to speak of and the beach is pancake flat with no dunes or other features of interest. On top of that, there is really no place to "go" nearby for further entertainment other than the afore mentioned smokey casino.
If you're set on the ocean coast, I'd be more inclined to look at the Long Beach peninsula. If you simply want a smaller town near the water, Port Angeles, Sequim or Port Townsend would be worth considering.
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Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)