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Old 12-25-2021, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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I’ve always wondered, is the majority of the Midwestern United States, especially the upper Midwest practically subarctic in climate especially in winter where actual winter cold temperatures can rival lows in Alaska and Canadian winters? Discuss
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Old 12-25-2021, 06:00 PM
 
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Not sure whether this is due to a cold epoch or not (like the South-Southeast has), but it has some of the coldest winter temperatures compared to its summer temperatures. Much moreso than some other humid continental climates in the Lower 48.

For example, Lincoln has a daily low of 19.3 degrees in its warmest month, slightly warmer than the mean of 19 degrees in Marquette's warmest months.
Yet its annual mean minimum is 2.3 degrees colder (-22 vs -24.3) and its coldest month is only 3.6 degrees warmer (-3.9 vs -7.5 degrees).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln,_Nebraska#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marque...chigan#Climate
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Old 12-25-2021, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't think of username View Post
Not sure whether this is due to a cold epoch or not (like the South-Southeast has), but it has some of the coldest winter temperatures compared to its summer temperatures. Much moreso than some other humid continental climates in the Lower 48.

For example, Lincoln has a daily low of 19.3 degrees in its warmest month, slightly warmer than the mean of 19 degrees in Marquette's warmest months.
Yet its annual mean minimum is 2.3 degrees colder (-22 vs -24.3) and its coldest month is only 3.6 degrees warmer (-3.9 vs -7.5 degrees).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln,_Nebraska#Climate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marque...chigan#Climate
Much of the upper great lakes region even has relic ecosystem species similar to the boreal taiga of Alaska and Canadian forests such as paper birch balsam poplar and black and red spruce trees and the bogs in northeastern Minnesota and parts of northern Wisconsin also have similar relic shrub species such as huckleberry and blueberry as well as (other C-D members correct me on this if im incorrect) wild cranberry bushes. Sounds almost an echoing of scattered relic microclimates from the last ice age have lingered even now in the era of climate warming.
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Old 12-25-2021, 06:41 PM
 
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That's a pretty cool concept. I hope someone with more knowledge can jump in here and let us know about it.
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Old 12-25-2021, 07:11 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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No, I doubt anywhere in the Midwest is subartic. Even in Duluth, the Summers are warmer than most of Alaska, and well above the subartic threshold.

Maybe high up in the Rocky Mountains, but probably nowhere else in the lower 48 could be considered subartic.
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Old 12-25-2021, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
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NZ just has a climate which means no dormant period for native vegetation, where most people live.

Doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
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Old 01-05-2022, 02:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil View Post
No, I doubt anywhere in the Midwest is subartic. Even in Duluth, the Summers are warmer than most of Alaska, and well above the subartic threshold.

Maybe high up in the Rocky Mountains, but probably nowhere else in the lower 48 could be considered subartic.
The only real subarctic climates in the lower 48 are in the Northern Rockies and Cascades. Largest area of tundra in the lower 48 is in the Pasayten wilderness of north central Washington State. It is also the last place in the lower 48 with caribou.
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Old 01-07-2022, 10:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Thealpinist View Post
The only real subarctic climates in the lower 48 are in the Northern Rockies and Cascades. Largest area of tundra in the lower 48 is in the Pasayten wilderness of north central Washington State. It is also the last place in the lower 48 with caribou.
The only large areas, that is? Leadville, further south in the Rockies at 3100m elevation, is definitely Dfc by Köppen, but with milder winters than most. There are many small areas of tundra in the western US, wherever mountains exceed the tree line. If you pick a random 14er in Colorado you'll likely find at least 1 km^2 of tundra at its peak and some permanent snow patches. The predominant climate in the Colorado mountains is Dfb.

Also, Mt. Washington, NH is an unusual example, being the only tundra in the eastern US.

All-time record lows may be similar to some subarctic places even if the average climate is warmer. The all-time record low in Colorado is -52ºC, surprisingly in a lowland town. Many upper Midwestern places have higher all-time record lows than that (e.g. Fargo, -44ºC). Frost sinks in the mountains may see even lower temperatures, perhaps causing all time records of -70ºC or below in the Denali or Mt. Logan areas.
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Old 01-10-2022, 11:35 AM
 
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North Dakota gets extremely cold - down to -40 sometimes in the winter. But we also get hot in the summer, and we definitely don't have any tundra. I'm guessing the summer heat balances out the winter cold enough to take us out of the running for a subarctic climate.
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Old 01-10-2022, 02:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by error-404 View Post
The only large areas, that is? Leadville, further south in the Rockies at 3100m elevation, is definitely Dfc by Köppen, but with milder winters than most. There are many small areas of tundra in the western US, wherever mountains exceed the tree line. If you pick a random 14er in Colorado you'll likely find at least 1 km^2 of tundra at its peak and some permanent snow patches. The predominant climate in the Colorado mountains is Dfb.

Also, Mt. Washington, NH is an unusual example, being the only tundra in the eastern US.

All-time record lows may be similar to some subarctic places even if the average climate is warmer. The all-time record low in Colorado is -52ºC, surprisingly in a lowland town. Many upper Midwestern places have higher all-time record lows than that (e.g. Fargo, -44ºC). Frost sinks in the mountains may see even lower temperatures, perhaps causing all time records of -70ºC or below in the Denali or Mt. Logan areas.
I said “large area” of actual tundra.

There are definitely subarctic climates in the central Rockies as well. Just pointing out that the largest areas of tundra and permanently glaciated terrain is mostly confined to Northern Rockies, and Cascades.
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