Wisconsin Governor’s Race 2018

[InnovativeAmerican]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

Sounds like someone has been reading too much into the Shepard Express. "Hate Groups" says who the southern poverty law center. SPLC has just become another partisan group. I wish liberals would just come out and say if your Christian you're a bigot and a hater because that's basically what they are already saying. I cannot think they wouldn't attack a Jew or a Muslim the same way they seem to hate all white straight males who believe in GOD.

Do you have transcripts about what he said that was so bad?

Hypothetical here: If I say I am for man and women marriages am I suppressing their right or am I just voicing an opinion? People tend to read way into ones position on any issue, it happens on both sides I don't think Hagedorn is going to go out there and misread any laws to benefit his religious viewpoints, they can be separate.

Deep down do you believe he sits at home at the dinner table after he prays and says..."I hate these people", that alone would be a contradiction of Christians teaching ie hate the sin not the sinner.

My best friend from high school is a white straight male who believes in God/Jesus Christ.....I don't hate him? Your post reeks of exaggeration. You'd be surprised to know that a lot of liberals (including me) in the U.S. are Christians. We're just not *******s about it, so not sure where this is coming from. Jesus is a liberal, who hates him?

Now then, checking the privilege of the majority religion when it wants to oppress a minority in this country does read as “hatred” to the majority. That's not a very nuanced reading, though, especially for a majority religion that was itself exiled from its home country and pushed to have Freedom of Religion in the First Amendment. I don’t persecute, I do however like to remind some Christians of their hypocrisy.

How loving is it to:

1. Judge a person on their skin color or religion?
2. Judge a child on their gender? Or on their sexuality?
There are many many more but those two are the biggies for me at least.

I’m not ever going to persecute you, I will, however, continue to point out your hypocrisy as I become aware of them.

Originally Posted by Empidonax

Hagedorn has spoken to hate groups about sterilizing trans people, criminalizing sodomy, and suppressing the rights of LGBT folks. Many conservatives (including many conservative judges) and conservative groups publicly distanced themselves from Hagedorn for this reason. Does this mean that the people who voted for him are bigots? Perhaps, if they knew they were voting for a bigot. If they didn't know and might have cared, then they were probably ignorant about Hagedorn's speeches.

In the spirit of discussion, though: it would be nice to know why you thought he was a good choice for state supreme court judge, and how you (or your relatives) might have reconciled his anti-LGBT bigotry with other issues.

Well said!

Originally Posted by RowingFiend

You called large swaths of the state ignorant and uneducated along with suggesting they are bigots. You are what you claim to be against.

I will admit that I called them ignorant, but I never said they were uneducated.

[Empidonax]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

Sounds like someone has been reading too much into the Shepard Express. "Hate Groups" says who the southern poverty law center. SPLC has just become another partisan group.

The SPC--you mean, the same outfit that has designated the Ku Klux Klan, Westboro Baptist Church, and several neo-nazi groups as "hate groups"? Yep, just another partisan group.

If you look past the partisan labeling and see the main group he spoke to--Alliance Defending Freedom--you might note that ADF received its "hate group" designation for advocating against same-sex sexual activity. What kind of "freedom" is that?

Apparently, Hagedorn's track record was bad enough that much of the conservative establishment publicly disavowed him. Were they wrong, too? Or just the liberal dissenters?

I wish liberals would just come out and say if your Christian you're a bigot and a hater because that's basically what they are already saying. I cannot think they wouldn't attack a Jew or a Muslim the same way they seem to hate all white straight males who believe in GOD.

First of all, why would you wish that?

Second of all, your statement is false.

The "liberals" you talk about don't hate all straight white males blah blah blah. They dislike the ones who try to prevent other people from pursuing their own legitimate forms of livelihood.

Also, most "liberals" know that there are many fine Christians out there, and many of them are even allies of progressive interests.

Do you have transcripts about what he said that was so bad?

No, of course not (and you know that), but the claims have been verified in different media of various political persuasions. If you want, find the transcripts yourself, and post them here.

Hypothetical here: If I say I am for man and women marriages am I suppressing their right or am I just voicing an opinion?

If you say you're for hetero marriages, no big deal.

If you say you're only for hetero marriages, well, that's too bad, but that's your opinion.

If you say you're only for hetero marriages and work to shape a culture that keeps non-heteros from pursuing their legit forms of happiness, then you're starting to impose on people.

People tend to read way into ones position on any issue, it happens on both sides I don't think Hagedorn is going to go out there and misread any laws to benefit his religious viewpoints, they can be separate.

Can any person, even a judge, completely remove their opinions and prejudices when interpreting law and deriving conclusions? A lot of people believe in the myth that our legal documents--when read "correctly"--yield one unwavering conclusion about any issue. But the truth is that there is much ambiguity in legal work. What it usually gets down to is which set of arguments going one way you favor over another set of arguments going another way.

Anyhow, with regard to his beliefs: Hagedorn has publicly advocated against same-sex sexual relationships and in favor of sterilizing trans people. Perhaps he can set all that aside when the time comes, but it's hard to trust that.

Ultimately, it's one thing to believe something, and another to be in a position of power to realize those beliefs.

Deep down do you believe he sits at home at the dinner table after he prays and says..."I hate these people", that alone would be a contradiction of Christians teaching ie hate the sin not the sinner.

Well, what kinds of conversations have led him to think that trans people should be sterilized? I doubt it went like this: "Well, they can be really nice people...." Maybe he never used the word "hate," but I'm not sure that's a requirement. A lot of bigots think that they're doing good in the world.

[RowingFiend]

Originally Posted by Empidonax

Hagedorn has spoken to hate groups about sterilizing trans people, criminalizing sodomy, and suppressing the rights of LGBT folks. Many conservatives (including many conservative judges) and conservative groups publicly distanced themselves from Hagedorn for this reason. Does this mean that the people who voted for him are bigots? Perhaps, if they knew they were voting for a bigot. If they didn't know and might have cared, then they were probably ignorant about Hagedorn's speeches.

In the spirit of discussion, though: it would be nice to know why you thought he was a good choice for state supreme court judge, and how you (or your relatives) might have reconciled his anti-LGBT bigotry with other issues.

Maybe they aren't bigots. Maybe they don't care about LGBTQIA as an issue as much as they do about other matters that actually affect them. Maybe they are smart enough to know that handing over the WI Supreme Court to a bunch of liberals is far more dangerous to their way of life than some regretful comments Hagedorn made many years ago. Maybe they don't believe the SPLC and the left when they say things like "he wants to sterilize trans people" because the people making those claims have been caught lying over and over and over again.


There were many reasons to vote for Hagedorn. You don't get it because you care about one issue judging by your post.

[cotty123]

I live in Wisconsin have never been a Democrat and for the most part we don't care about LGBTQ or anything else when it comes to policies we want someone who understands values traditional values of being a law abiding citizens who cares about community and opportunity for people as a who to advance we have ended the debate of system marriage so that would be the only thing stopping homosexuals from having equal right they have every right a married couple has under the law but we also don't want our kids pushed into that kind of lifestyle either if we are Christians (secular non religious persons) or what ever it's time for us to get back to the real issues common decency and respect for our neighbors and having real decisions about real issues like poverty , wage growth, public infrastructure, medical care, education, and making sure our kids have the proper training for changes to our economy due to automation and technological advances like A.I.

[InnovativeAmerican]

Originally Posted by cotty123

I live in Wisconsin have never been a Democrat and for the most part we don't care about LGBTQ or anything else when it comes to policies we want someone who understands values traditional values of being a law abiding citizens who cares about community and opportunity for people as a who to advance we have ended the debate of system marriage so that would be the only thing stopping homosexuals from having equal right they have every right a married couple has under the law but we also don't want our kids pushed into that kind of lifestyle either if we are Christians (secular non religious persons) or what ever it's time for us to get back to the real issues common decency and respect for our neighbors and having real decisions about real issues like poverty , wage growth, public infrastructure, medical care, education, and making sure our kids have the proper training for changes to our economy due to automation and technological advances like A.I.

Human sexuality isn't a "lifestyle." I really don't understand why so many Christians still remain willfully ignorant in this day and age.

Originally Posted by thefragile

What? Next time use proper punctuation & grammar.

This is typical of bigots.