Raising the Beer Tax? (Madison: buy, public schools, taxi)

[JoshB]

Originally Posted by Geechie North

Funny thing is that Wisconsin's roads are in good shape compared to most other states. When it comes to % of roadways paved, it ranks at the top, or near it.

That's exactly what I was thinking. The interstates are nice and smooth and potholes are usually fixed asap in the spring.


CJ: What do you mean why is every single boat launch paved? Sheesh maybe some of us don't want to get our trucks dusty. jk there. Any ways I like the fact that the back roads are paved. Some days I just like to jump in my Maxima and cruise through the bluffs in all the twist and turns. If those roads weren't paved I don't think I'd be able to go as fast.

I like our roads paved, lets leave it at that.

[susancruzs]

I appreciate the great roads, and the fact smaller county roads are paved! Someone mentioned high gas tax, I find that amusing! Compared to states in the south, yes, gas tax is high but there are states higher still and excuse me, roads that are in awful shapre compared to Wisconsin.

[Murderwaukee]

Jim Doyle is a jerk off and will tax anything he can in WI.
Raising the beer tax 500% is really out of line . This is
one of life's simple pleasures to come home and have
a beer after a honest days work in the tax hell Doyle has
created in Wisconsin.

[ccjarider]

CJ: What do you mean why is every single boat launch paved? Sheesh maybe some of us don't want to get our trucks dusty. jk there. Any ways I like the fact that the back roads are paved. Some days I just like to jump in my Maxima and cruise through the bluffs in all the twist and turns. If those roads weren't paved I don't think I'd be able to go as fast.

I like our roads paved, lets leave it at that.[/quote]

Well then I guess you live in the right place!
Although I am not sure why the public should have to pay for your ability to enjoy driving fast through the counrty on seldom travelled roads that are paved like an interstate.

[Geechie North]

Originally Posted by Murderwaukee

Jim Doyle is a jerk off and will tax anything he can in WI.
Raising the beer tax 500% is really out of line . This is
one of life's simple pleasures to come home and have
a beer after a honest days work in the tax hell Doyle has
created in Wisconsin.

.

Tax Hell??


No beer?

Facts: When you consider taxes and fees (like library fees, etc) that places like Ill. use to cover the real costs which used to be included in the tax base, Wisconsin comes in at #17 in terms of burden.

That's something the Grover Norquists of the world won't tell you.

As for depriving the public of its god-given right to amber fluid... well, that is too out there to even consider.

If anything, what has affected beer (and all alcohol) consumption has been lowering the OWI level to .08%, as the Feds did in the 90's (by tying the adoption of said standard to $ for road funding).

That, and the change in the public's attitude to the chronic drinker, has made tavern ownership a more difficult proposition.

As for the low tax v high tax thing, I lived in a low tax "heaven" for the first 30 years of my life.

The schools were easy to identify: they were the buildings with the cardboard covering the broken windows, and the run-down trailers in the playgrounds.

Roads there were in worse shape that in Wisconsin, despite having no freeze-thaw cycle to contend with, for different reasons:

Many wern't paved; those that were carried about 3x the traffic volume for which they were designed.

How about you law&order types?

Right now in my county of 60,000 (more or less), there are at least 4 sheriff units and two state patrol ones on the roads.

In my law tax "heaven" county of 400,000 there were exactly two.
And the response times showed it.


Bottom line:

You get what you pay for, and you really pay for what you get.

[JoshB]

Originally Posted by Geechie North

.

Tax Hell??


No beer?

Facts: When you consider taxes and fees (like library fees, etc) that places like Ill. use to cover the real costs which used to be included in the tax base, Wisconsin comes in at #17 in terms of burden.

That's something the Grover Norquists of the world won't tell you.

As for depriving the public of its god-given right to amber fluid... well, that is too out there to even consider.

If anything, what has affected beer (and all alcohol) consumption has been lowering the OWI level to .08%, as the Feds did in the 90's (by tying the adoption of said standard to $ for road funding).

That, and the change in the public's attitude to the chronic drinker, has made tavern ownership a more difficult proposition.

As for the low tax v high tax thing, I lived in a low tax "heaven" for the first 30 years of my life.

The schools were easy to identify: they were the buildings with the cardboard covering the broken windows, and the run-down trailers in the playgrounds.

Roads there were in worse shape that in Wisconsin, despite having no freeze-thaw cycle to contend with, for different reasons:

Many wern't paved; those that were carried about 3x the traffic volume for which they were designed.

How about you law&order types?

Right now in my county of 60,000 (more or less), there are at least 4 sheriff units and two state patrol ones on the roads.

In my law tax "heaven" county of 400,000 there were exactly two.
And the response times showed it.


Bottom line:

You get what you pay for, and you really pay for what you get.

Wow, Where did you used to live that it could be that bad?

[Geechie North]

Sc.

[Drover]

Alcoholics are incredibly resourceful. Raise the cost of drinking whatever they drink and they'll simply find a cheaper alternative -- say, stepping down from Jim Beam to Early Times. Or they'll reallocate their budget -- less eating out, more money for booze. Only those who are already so destitute as to practically (or actually) be on the streets will be inconvenienced. I don't think even casual/social drinkers would tolerate the level of taxation that would be necessary to affect a measurable impact on consumption behavior. That's not to say I think a $10 tax on a keg of beer is unreasonable -- as to that one data point taken by itself, I'm indifferent. So I'd have to know what purpose this serves before saying I would oppose it or would be willing to live with it (I can't think of any circumstance where I'd actually support it).

If you really want to see meaningful reductions in alcohol consumption, then you'll need to do the hard work of changing the culture. And that's a delicate task in a place like Wisconsin where both alcohol is such an inextricable part of the culture. Targeting problem drinking without alienating responsible social drinkers is a thorny task.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by ranger17

well, Wi does have a high gas tax, and look at the wonderful condition the roads are in...
ooops, slipped in a puddle of sarcasm there.

while i don't drink, i did consume plenty of brew "in the day". I'd call a tax like this as a user tax, no different then gas, smokes, etc. You use it, you pay for it. But if a tax like that somehow lowers the hi property tax for all, then it is a good thing ( don't pay attn to my location, i just moved from Wi and am well versed in hi taxes there ).

Well it's different from gas because gas taxes directly fund a good/service tied to gas consumption: streets and roads. What taxpayer-funded service is tied directly to smoking and alcohol consumption?

[Drover]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

I will ask the question - Is it necessary that every little po-dunk road that sees 4 cars/day be paved? It amuses me that almost every little boat launch in WI is paved. Why?

I suspect boat ramps are paved for environmental reasons. Ask the DNR what they think of gravel constantly spilling into the lakes. Also, consider the average vehicle used to tow a boat and the kind of wear and tear they'd put on unpaved ramps. They'd be useless ruts by the end of June.

Also, gravel roads are hard enough to maintain in decent climates. They suck in cold climates. Keeping paved roads in passable condition is difficult enough. Plus, more unpaved roads equals more wear and tear on cars. You'll pay for it one way or another -- so you might as well pick the one that equals a smoother ride and equals preventative rather than reactive car care.