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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,615 posts, read 81,316,164 times
Reputation: 57871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeannaC
I think it would be prudent for new students to find out which fields are hiring and paying well, and going after the degrees those fields require, as opposed to getting degrees in something they think they'd like, but will never find out, because there are fifty thousand people who just got degrees in the same arena and nobody's hiring.
Generally a good idea, but not foolproof. Most graduates are taking 5 years to get through college now, and a lot can happen to change the "hot degree" in that time.
Wasn't there a recent thread that showed American having too many college graduates?(especially business management degrees)
I think that there are too many people with college degrees is obvious to anyone that has been to college in the last 10-20 years. College has been sold as some magical path to the upper middle-class despite the fact that a lot of kids don't belong in college and would be better served going to vocational school.
The fact is that a lot of the jobs that require college degrees can be outsourced. Its impossible to outsource car repair or HVAC installation/repair services to India. Those vocational jobs have the potential to earn more than the Women's Studies degree that will land a lucrative job as a barista or Barnes and Noble cashier.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,615 posts, read 81,316,164 times
Reputation: 57871
There is still only 4.7% of hourly workers making minimum wage and most are ages 16-19. The unemployment rate nationally is 7.4%. The poverty rate in the US is 16%. Hard as it may be for those people included in, these are still small numbers. In other words, 84% of Americans are not living in poverty, 95.3% make more than minimum wages, and 92.6% have jobs.
While the gap between college and high school graduates has shrunk a bit, college is still making a big difference.
Wasn't there a recent thread that showed American having too many college graduates?(especially business management degrees)
American has too many graduates because of what s1alker said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker
They do nothing but shove college down the students throats during the K-12 years.
Now I don't remember college being shoved so much in K-8 or so (except if you watched tv & movies where every character virtually went to college after high school.) However I remember getting the whole college is important talks from several teachers during high school. Add this to what the media, politicians and college recruiters and you have a public sanction issue where if you don't, you feel like you don't belong. This leads to 70% of high school graduates going to college. And the fact is we don't have enough jobs for them, nor do we for the existing workforce in November and April.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
Generally a good idea, but not foolproof. Most graduates are taking 5 years to get through college now, and a lot can happen to change the "hot degree" in that time.
Even in four years it is hard. Companies have enough of a hard time forecasting one year out. The other side of it is colleges running skeleton crews, requiring remedial courses, internships taking place of required classes for majors. I mean you COULD do summer courses but not every course you need is. I know for me, lower level requirements were but not every upper division requirements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140
There is still only 4.7% of hourly workers making minimum wage and most are ages 16-19. The unemployment rate nationally is 7.4%. The poverty rate in the US is 16%. Hard as it may be for those people included in, these are still small numbers. In other words, 84% of Americans are not living in poverty, 95.3% make more than minimum wages, and 92.6% have jobs.
While the gap between college and high school graduates has shrunk a bit, college is still making a big difference.
Fair enough but how many people in the 84% are actually making a living that they can survive on. Last I checked, poverty levels are a national standard, NOT a local standard. You could be above the national poverty line but not make enough for COL in your area.
As for the 92.6% have jobs, that is LOADED. 92.6% of the LABOR FORCE has jobs. NOT THE TOTAL POPULATION.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPhillyDude75
My mom points that out every year when she watches the graduations on the news and says
"now all those people will be in the job market with all the other colleges all over the country competing for jobs.
And competing with jobs with existing job seekers.
The fact is that a lot of the jobs that require college degrees can be outsourced. Its impossible to outsource car repair or HVAC installation/repair services to India.
What I have seen and heard about trades still paying well, well not so much right now. My friend in Alberta, high COL, booming province is getting $10 hour doing apprentice plumber. He lives in southern AB so that may be this issue. Other tradesman, the closer they are to the border the more pressure on wages as they compete for cheap migrant labor.
Every college grad should be programmed to look BEYOND a Mcdonald's job. I think a front desk security job is a better option right out of college than some damm Mcdonald's
You need to have the right qualifications and a guard card to work in security. My ex worked many security jobs and had to have a card for all of them.
North Dakota has a shale boom and jobs are plentiful. 3.3% unemployment rate and those are probably the ones who just don't want to or are incapable of working. One can get a job at $15/hour to bus tables, for example.
Massachusetts apple orchard owners fly Jamaican men up every year to pick the apples. Law requires them to first advertise locally before they can get the guest visas for these guys, so they waste a couple thousand bucks advertise and no takers. Maybe one or two locals will come pick for a day or so, then they're gone. They say back in the 1930s, college students from Boston used to go out there begging for a summer job. Not any more.
Part of the problem in the U.S. is the fading work ethic. Several million Mexicans come north every year and do the menial work that no locals wish to do -- janitorial, harvesting, dish washing, piece work in factories, landscaping. Why are they even here? It's because there are jobs. Were there no jobs, there'd be no mass immigration from Mexico, legal or otherwise.
Myth #2 - fast food pay is low
Low is relative. In the early 1960s, $10,000 was considered a good salary. In 1960, a man could work in a hardware store or an auto body shop and support a stay-at-home wife and four children in a modest home with one automobile and one TV set. Today, even if both worked such jobs, they can barely pay the rent much less afford to raise kids, have two cars, cell phone bills, etc.
If $7/hour is low, let's examine the reasons. It costs a lot more today to acquire shelter, food, health care, and transportation, which are the basics of life. Why is that? I believe it has a lot to do with our over use of regulations, lawsuits, insurance, and control of people's lives. Maybe we're safer and more secure today, but at what price?
Every summer camp now has to carry liability insurance to protect themselves against the stupidest frivolous lawsuits as well as legit suits. Thus, summer camps have either folded or else charge ridiculous prices like $1000 for a week. That's jobs and that's lifestyle that we have sacrificed for security. One example out of millions.
Myth #3 - fast food is exploitative / crappy work / your-favorite-Marxist-phrase-here
Fast food is like any other kind of work. If you enjoy it, you're good at it, and you're motivated to do it, then you're in the right job. I've done it back in the high school and college days. Work is work. It's ironic that we Americans, who pride ourselves on our egalitarianism and anti-elitism, look down at people who do menial work like fast food, yet hypocritically many if not most of us patronize fast food places.
Fast food is hard work. Not everyone can hack it. Frankly a lot of people who diss fast food probably don't have the stones to do a hard day's work to save their life. Personally I have no respect for such people. Unfortunately they seem to be the majority or at least a very vocal and large minority in our society today, much unlike the world of our grandparents where you either worked or you went hungry, and it was considered a shameful thing not to work anyway.
When I lived in Phoenix, I saw Hispanic people filling these lower paying jobs like fast food and landscaping and Walmart's. They worked so hard, and were cheerful and polite to deal with. Sure, there are social problems among the Mexicans just like any other low income group, but overall I found them to be a tremendous asset and a shining example for what America used to be and ought to be.
Myth #4 - employers owe me.
Employers owe you nothing except a day's pay for a day's work. They don't owe you a paycheck if you don't do the work because then you are expecting them to pay you for nothing which hurts them and puts them out of business. Under our current laws, of course, they have to work with you and try to cajole you into getting work done and document every step of the process and then finally terminate your position with two weeks' pay and notice. This is very expensive especially when the employee is basically screwing the company and wasting its time and money.
If you apply for a job, and they decide they don't want you, they owe you no explanation. It's considered polite to send a personally addressed letter/email stating that another candidate fit their needs better, and good luck on your search, blah blah blah. But even that is not required by any law.
The entitlement attitude is a very expensive one. If you wish to understand why there are fewer jobs, and why many jobs have been moved overseas, and why the cost of living is so high, you need look no further. We are responsible for our own actions, and in this case our actions have priced us out of the jobs we feel we deserve.
If we are to get back to the kind of prosperity we enjoyed in the 1950s and 1960s, we need to re-think how we treat our job-creating businesses. Calling them the greedy one percenters and so on may feel good, but it smacks of resentment and envy, and is a waste of creative energy. Better is to level the playing field, keep taxes and regulations at a moderate level to encourage businesses to set up shop, and treat businesses like the asset they are rather than like the evil domineering bad guys that they are painted to be.
Are there greedy evil people in business? Sure. Can it be changed? Doubtful. Look at the former communist countries such as China and the former Soviet bloc. Their societies today are totally greed driven, amoral, violent, and brutal, especially the Soviet region. You can't stamp out this trait of our species. Better to control it with education including morality and ethical training in the schools, in church, and in social and community structure.
A rising tide lifts all boats. We could have manufacturing again in the U.S., if we made it affordable for investors to set up shop here. That's what we should be focusing on, in my opinion. Sorry for the long diatribe, and I welcome debate and disagreement as long as it is civil and thoughtful.
I think that there are too many people with college degrees is obvious to anyone that has been to college in the last 10-20 years. College has been sold as some magical path to the upper middle-class despite the fact that a lot of kids don't belong in college and would be better served going to vocational school.
The fact is that a lot of the jobs that require college degrees can be outsourced. Its impossible to outsource car repair or HVAC installation/repair services to India. Those vocational jobs have the potential to earn more than the Women's Studies degree that will land a lucrative job as a barista or Barnes and Noble cashier.
What's sad here is that only about 30% of Americans have a Bachelor's degree and that's considered "too many".
I think that there are too many people with college degrees is obvious to anyone that has been to college in the last 10-20 years. College has been sold as some magical path to the upper middle-class despite the fact that a lot of kids don't belong in college and would be better served going to vocational school.
The fact is that a lot of the jobs that require college degrees can be outsourced. Its impossible to outsource car repair or HVAC installation/repair services to India. Those vocational jobs have the potential to earn more than the Women's Studies degree that will land a lucrative job as a barista or Barnes and Noble cashier.
I agree with you, all the complaining about IT and manufacturing jobs being outsourced is true, however there are jobs out there that cannot be outsourced due to the work itself. There are jobs in oil and gas, service and repair, shipping and receiving, even agriculture, that by the very nature of the work is not going anywhere any time soon. The United States became wealthy through hard work, innovation, and natural resources, not through building a computer system, having the best education, or forcing companies to keep workers here through tax structures and regulations.
You want to ensure you have a job for life, find something that has to do with natural resources in the US, find a service or repair type career that nobody either knows how to do or wants to do, work harder than anybody else, and you will be fine. Once you figure out what you want to do the decision on whether or not you need further schooling is easy, plus if you change your mind in 10 years you can still go back to school. For me it was small business and personal accounting solutions including taxes. When I told people what I was doing, it was almost funny the comments I heard, from amazement that anybody would choose to do that for a career to questions on how to even read a tax return, that was how I knew I was on the right track. I make good money and only really work hard for 4 months out of the year.
If you are choosing a career because someone told you it was the hot job market, or your guidance counselor or parents think you should, or all your buddies think it is a great career, then you need to be prepared to work harder than anybody else in school, because it is almost a guarantee that plenty of other college kids are getting the same degree.
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