Do you buy the argument that the modern world NEEDS tons of college grads? (license, secretary)
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To get your foot in the door through the college route, you also have to be extremely determined and ambitious. Everyone I know who got a real career straight out of undergrad school was extremely determined and ambitious. I guess I knew 1 guy who was a lazy Computer Science student and took an extra year to graduate, but then again it takes a ton of determination and ambition to get into that major at my school; you need to be top 90-95% in all your Calc, Physics and CS classes to have a chance.
You've actually made an argument against college. One of the main arguments against the claim that college adds $1,000,000 over the lifetime of the average person, is that those people are the determined, ambitious and intelligent ones who would've succeeded whether or not they went to college.
I disagree. I wasn't some super overachiever in college. I graduated with little debt (parents paid for most of it), then I worked a seasonal job at the National Park Service for 6 months while I figured out what the heck I wanted to do with my life. I then took a job as an accountant (I had gotten a liberal arts degree but promised my employer that I could do the job). Worked it for a while, and decided to go back and get a masters and a CPA licence. Thinks have worked out pretty well since...but I haven't busted my ass aside from studying for the CPA license. I graduated in 2005.
College is a means to get your foot in the door in many career fields. I got into IT without a degree but I also was very determined and ambitious. I also had a VERY good mentor who I looked up to for advicee.
I got my BS degree in 2007 because my company told me. "We can't put you on many contracts becuase lack of degree". So to keep my job and future work. I got my BS degree. I got it in Business and they paid for all of it. My Master's I got somewhat for myself and not the immediate employment but the future. The type of work that I do and what I want to do, that Master's will get me past the gatekeeper over someone who has no Master's. I also am working on several certifications that my current job requires me to have. More resume building that someone with just a high school diploma and years of experience won't be able to compete with. Not that they aren't smarter than me because honestly..they probably are. I just have that blipping piece of paper. My college debt for Master's is 50K. I will make that money back and than some after I get to the next level.
It is very difficult to get into IT without a degree. For some a Bachelors of Science is the difference between $12 an hour and $15 an hour. There are a few making it without a degree; writers, artists, singers, etc. but very few.
Most non degree IT I know are stuck in call centers for 15 years. It only gets harder with each passing day.
Can you go into more depth about how this came about? Did you just apply in spite of not meeting the stated qualifications?
Yes. I did not meet several of the qualifications but I was confident enough in the interview that they hired me. It was for a large university, and it was an entry-level position. I had some IT experience in college, and that helped a bit. My undergrad was in English Literature. I did not take a college-level accounting class until I had to take some leveling courses to get my masters. I told them I learn pretty quickly, and they believed me (I guess).
It wasn't much more than entry level..paid $35k a year and had some nice benies (because it was a state university). I enjoyed it though and it helped me along in my career.
I did have some business experience prior to this - in college my dad hooked me up with one of his clients (he's an attorney) who gave me a summer office job...that helped with "resume fuel".
It is very difficult to get into IT without a degree. For some a Bachelors of Science is the difference between $12 an hour and $15 an hour. There are a few making it without a degree; writers, artists, singers, etc. but very few.
Most non degree IT I know are stuck in call centers for 15 years. It only gets harder with each passing day.
I wasn't stuck in a call center but my pay was about 20.00 an hour compared to the 40.00 an hour person who did the same thing as me but had college degree. Also government contracts use labor categories..if you don't have a degree you need so much experience to make up for that degree.
I have mentored several college students that were interns with my agency. I told them flat out this is a chance that many don't get. You can do it your way which is to ignore what I request, being snotty with what I ask you to do, show up late, etc. OR My way which is when I ask you to do something please do it without snearing at me. Mostly because there is NOTHING that I will ask you to do that I myself haven't done. Management doesn't want to pay me my senior salary to do something piddly that interns can do. I have written several reccomendations that have landed them perm jobs. I also have told a couple that it wasn't going to work.
Yes. I did not meet several of the qualifications but I was confident enough in the interview that they hired me. It was for a large university, and it was an entry-level position. I had some IT experience in college, and that helped a bit. My undergrad was in English Literature. I did not take a college-level accounting class until I had to take some leveling courses to get my masters. I told them I learn pretty quickly, and they believed me (I guess).
It wasn't much more than entry level..paid $35k a year and had some nice benies (because it was a state university). I enjoyed it though and it helped me along in my career.
I did have some business experience prior to this - in college my dad hooked me up with one of his clients (he's an attorney) who gave me a summer office job...that helped with "resume fuel".
That is awsome! And something def worth trying myself perhaps
Four- year colleges and universities are not job training or vocational technical schools. Our higher education system in the U.S.A. is the envy of the world. Students from all over the world want to study here. Let's not water down curriculum or limit general education requirements in areas like art, music, literature, philosophy, physical science, composition, simply because the "masses" are attending colleges to check the box and buy a degree to get a full time job.
High schools used to have shop classes and home economic and typing classes and vocational technical programs. Americans complained that we were effectively taking teenagers' choices away from them by not preparing them for college. High schools then started offering college prep to the majority of students.
What happens if a 14-year-old high school student is interested in cars, so takes only shop classes and learns to become a mechanic, but then at the age of 20-years-old, he regrets that choice? He didn't take the required foreign language, English, history, science, and math classes in high school. If he wants to attend college and not be a mechanic the rest of his life, he will now have to pay for those prerequisites out of his own pocket.
On the flip side, a 14-year-old high school student who is interested in cars but is forced to take college prep classes in high school, can still either attend college or get a part time job at a car mechanic shop and become a mechanic. At least with college prep courses, the student has a choice to either pursue college with the necessary prerequisites or become a mechanic.
Americans need to take education more seriously.
Agree 100%.
People think that if you major in accounting and obtain a CPA, that you're forced to be an accountant. It's one path that you can take, but a college degree often gives you options to branch off into other rewarding careers.
We have to realize, that experts today tell us that half the jobs people will hold in just 10 years have not even been invented yet. Times are rapidly changing, and the more education will be required to fill those jobs.
Jobs are becoming more technical, and will require college or other specialized education to get hired.
We have to realize, that experts today tell us that half the jobs people will hold in just 10 years have not even been invented yet. Times are rapidly changing, and the more education will be required to fill those jobs.
Jobs are becoming more technical, and will require college or other specialized education to get hired.
You keep peddling that "experts say" BS.
Those same "experts" also said back in the mid 2000s that the economy would continue to grow by leaps and bounds. Guess what happened in 2008?
Those same "experts" also said back in the mid 2000s that the economy would continue to grow by leaps and bounds. Guess what happened in 2008?
The economy did continue growing after a recession... Something we see quite often. Economic growth does not require job growth. It's merely a common sign or symptom.
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