"No one owes you a job/anything" (full-time, hired, office)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
One can do "all the right things" and still be out of a job.
The favorite example I keep using, that no one seems to address:
One could have gone to school, majored in a degree that is in demand, did well (good GPA) and even had an internship or two. They get lucky and find an entry level job. They work there, and even take classes or volunteer work outside of work to "keep their skills current." The economy goes **** up and they find themselves out of a job through no fault of their own (company/department shuts down, work dries up, etc.). So they go out and try to find a job, but since they don't have the "3-5 years experience" in something specific, they get glossed over - because volunteer work/classes don't count - companies are adverse to hiring entry/jr level workers, which I don't blame them to an extent in tough times.
EDIT: I can agree to an extent that "no one owes one a job" but that has to be balanced against, as Rambler123 keeps saying, there isn't exactly a plethora of open positions. I least read there are something like 7 applicants to 1 job opening. So, there are 6 people who may be completely competent, but without a job. No matter how hard they work or whatever they do, they will still be without a job.
Thanks for saying this - you basically sum up my life in a paragraph.
I graduated 3rd in my class with a mechanical engineering degree with a host of awards, scholarships, etc. I went to work for one of the "big guys" in defense contracting who was hiring top-tier folks fresh out of college, got 10+ years of solid experience that field... and then the economy crashes, the world changes, and somehow I'm now "surplus population," which is BS.
I did everything right - more than "right" in that I far exceeded what was expected. I didn't get a useless degree. I didn't go to work for a useless company or refuse chances to gain in-demand skills. And yet, I've been stuck working odd jobs or being out of work for several years now, while idiots, bums, and morons who refuse to do their jobs and who often lack basic skills get lifetime employment thanks to their connections. I've told the stories on this forum plenty of times, so it should be no wonder why I'm angry and disgusted with this joke of an economy and the laughable nitwits that support it.
If this can happen to me, it can happen to ANYONE, even the most ardent fan of big business. And yet, all I hear are the same tired, ignorant replies: "Derp, the unemployed are all lazy," "Duh, maybe you should take a class in jet engine design that'll somehow count for 3 to 5 years experience in that field," or "Um... nobody cares about the facts - just get a job!"
One can debate if people "owe you a job" or not, but I'm am damn tired of listening to people who seem to think we live in a meritocracy with enough jobs for all. Their immunity to facts and utter blindness to the world around them is simply inexcusable, and not one of them has a good answer to the unemployment problem so long as the situation does not affect them or - through good fortune - they are able to find work after losing their job. And yet to the bitter end, they still think that their "skills" spared them from the bread lines, or they honestly think they shouldn't have to care what happens to anybody else around them since "we gotta make more money!"
This subject is very sensitive to me. I've been victimized by employers ever since I was of legal working age. I have never been given a fair shot no matter what I have done or tried. I've been looking for a job for almost 6 years now. It's funny because people talk about how they will never work again, but for me it's like I'll never be given a chance to work period.
Is this way I'm feeling natural, growing up during a recession? When you can't even get a job sweeping somebody's floor without having 3 years of experience and this other stuff?
There are days where I really don't know what to feel or think, is this it? Am I never going to have a shot at a life? I cry about it when I remember how shady, unresponsive, and deceitful employers are and the things they've done to me. They way they've treated me. Imagine having only a GED, and every single job listing in your town says "experience required" in some form or another. Imagine having no car and only a bike, with a limited range of where to look for jobs.
The limited Bus lines are useless for me, because you have to work weekends and have an open availability schedule to be taken seriously.
Pretty much every employer around where I live has a bad attitude or mentality. Either they won't call me after I apply, or they act interested and then I never hear from them again. Or they tell me they will call me, and hire someone else and never call. Or they repost the "now hiring!" ad over and over. Or I apply and follow up, only to be pounced on by some rude manager that sounds like they are about to blow a gasket. It's like this with EVERY job I go for.
It's like something is making these people act irresponsible towards others. Is it because there's 1000s of applicants? Around here? It can't be though, could it? I just wish I knew why they act the way they do. It has nothing to do with being busy, it's literally like these people don't want you to get a job!!
Since I was 18 I've been applying to all kinds of jobs including: restaurants, fast food, retail, warehouse, manufacturing positions, it's been so long I don't even remember what I applied for. Lots of labor stuff and I never got a single bite.
I can't even get a job at the local grocery stores or fast food places, despite applying to them for years off and on. Staffing agencies want 1 year work history or can't help you. When you ask them why the jobs require experience they don't answer. Labor ready and places like that are out of range for me. But wait, I still don't have a car so I'll be paying for transportation out of the already chump change you get working there. I've been to employment counselors, vocrehab, job developers, pretty much everything an unemployed person could do. I've been told that the resume stuff is useless to me right now, what I need is someone to say you're hired. But nobody will hire or nobody is hiring.
It's almost like the universe has put a freeze on any progress for me.
There is just something going on behind the scenes, somewhere, I know there is and it's hampering me from moving forward. For me, the door was always LOCKED, no way to get in. "We don't want you". No matter what I tried and continue to try. Years ago I was being told what I'm told now by people. That's why it's gotten tiring.
I can't even get a trade apprenticeship because you need a $3,000 certification and 3 years of experience in the field before them guys will look at you. There is none of that starting at the bottom BS people talk about. Their help wanted ads say it. I thought all you need was a diploma, and willing to learn but apparently that's not how it works around here.
I have to live with the fact that every application I fill out is going to be ignored. The phone never rings. Not even an interview. Not even an email. Just living with this is hard enough on me. But it hurts when the employer stops communicating abruptly and leaves me hanging. It hurts really bad after happening thousands of times over.
I can't even get a person on craigslist to reply to my email about needing help moving their washing machine for 30 bucks. Is there really thousands of people willing to move a washing machine for 30 bucks? Is it that bad? It happens every single time I email someone.
I need a job to help continue my education, but it appears I will just never find one because of the society we are living in, and the people around me that inhabit it. If I can't even obtain an odd job, what chances do I have elsewhere?
I even offered to pay money, if someone hired me. Nobody was interested in my offer. Is it another sign that there's no work to be had here? I felt bad about doing this at first, but I'm willing to do it. It's just like some nerd or hermit that is willing to pay a woman to go on a date. We're all human, it's just some of us have it more difficult.
You can read my story all across this forum. I'm a legitimate case. Every option I think I have or people might think I have is out of reach to me.
My whole mindset and outlook on life in the last few years has changed. The world is a cruel place where nobody cares and anything can happen to you. 95% of people are scum. The others are people like me, who caught themselves in bad situations that can't pull themselves out of or can't even get the ball rolling to begin with.
The hardest part is trying to figure out what you are going to do for the rest of your "time", or how you can 'bypass' and still come through. How do you live without a job? How do you live without money?
Then, when I'm on the street, someone is going to tell me to get a job and stop being lazy. But they don't know my story. They don't know that I never had a chance to begin with. That's what I hate about you other humans. You don't understand me. You think I'm making excuses and being lazy when it's YOU ALL who are really responsible. But it's easier to blame the person you are hurting. Instead of hiring me for gods sake you have to keep holding me back and playing games about it.
Thanks for saying this - you basically sum up my life in a paragraph.
I graduated 3rd in my class with a mechanical engineering degree with a host of awards, scholarships, etc. I went to work for one of the "big guys" in defense contracting who was hiring top-tier folks fresh out of college, got 10+ years of solid experience that field... and then the economy crashes, the world changes, and somehow I'm now "surplus population," which is BS.
I did everything right - more than "right" in that I far exceeded what was expected. I didn't get a useless degree. I didn't go to work for a useless company or refuse chances to gain in-demand skills. And yet, I've been stuck working odd jobs or being out of work for several years now, while idiots, bums, and morons who refuse to do their jobs and who often lack basic skills get lifetime employment thanks to their connections. I've told the stories on this forum plenty of times, so it should be no wonder why I'm angry and disgusted with this joke of an economy and the laughable nitwits that support it.
If this can happen to me, it can happen to ANYONE, even the most ardent fan of big business. And yet, all I hear are the same tired, ignorant replies: "Derp, the unemployed are all lazy," "Duh, maybe you should take a class in jet engine design that'll somehow count for 3 to 5 years experience in that field," or "Um... nobody cares about the facts - just get a job!"
One can debate if people "owe you a job" or not, but I'm am damn tired of listening to people who seem to think we live in a meritocracy with enough jobs for all. Their immunity to facts and utter blindness to the world around them is simply inexcusable, and not one of them has a good answer to the unemployment problem so long as the situation does not affect them or - through good fortune - they are able to find work after losing their job. And yet to the bitter end, they still think that their "skills" spared them from the bread lines, or they honestly think they shouldn't have to care what happens to anybody else around them since "we gotta make more money!"
I completely understand your situation. I was in almost the exact same scenario that you went through. I graduated with a BS in mechanical engineering right about the time the economy started falling apart (~2008). I moved back home with my parents and lived there while looking for jobs. I finally found a contract job that paid decently. It was not at all what I wanted to do long term. Fast forward 6 months and I thought I would have been converted to full time. I kept seeing people from my university being hired in as full time employees and I asked about being converted to full time and it never materialized. I found a new job, once again not doing what I had specialized in, in HVAC. Got stuck in HVAC. I then decided it was time to switch out of mechanical engineering and into what I should have majored in the first go round, computer engineering/science. To this day I am still not doing what I want to do long term, which is write low level software (C, C++) for embedded devices, or do board level design for new CPU chips.
Everyday I go through an internal battle with myself where I just accept that I probably won't get to do what I want to do in this lifetime versus telling myself if I just work harder and get 3 more masters degrees that somehow I will finally land that job that I want.
There are way too many forces that are out of my control at play in this economy. Greed is rampant and everyone is out to protect their assets. And they are doing everything to make sure things are good for them and no one else. I am certainly not a proponent of socialism, but the current system is not working and I am convinced that the house of cards will fall hard within my lifetime.
For those in this thread that are struggling with unemployment/underemployment, please know that someone out there cares about you (at least I do, I know there are others on here). I genuinely hope it gets better for you and that you find the job that you were meant to do.
Thanks for saying this - you basically sum up my life in a paragraph.
I graduated 3rd in my class with a mechanical engineering degree with a host of awards, scholarships, etc. I went to work for one of the "big guys" in defense contracting who was hiring top-tier folks fresh out of college, got 10+ years of solid experience that field... and then the economy crashes, the world changes, and somehow I'm now "surplus population," which is BS.
I did everything right - more than "right" in that I far exceeded what was expected. I didn't get a useless degree. I didn't go to work for a useless company or refuse chances to gain in-demand skills. And yet, I've been stuck working odd jobs or being out of work for several years now, while idiots, bums, and morons who refuse to do their jobs and who often lack basic skills get lifetime employment thanks to their connections. I've told the stories on this forum plenty of times, so it should be no wonder why I'm angry and disgusted with this joke of an economy and the laughable nitwits that support it.
If this can happen to me, it can happen to ANYONE, even the most ardent fan of big business. And yet, all I hear are the same tired, ignorant replies: "Derp, the unemployed are all lazy," "Duh, maybe you should take a class in jet engine design that'll somehow count for 3 to 5 years experience in that field," or "Um... nobody cares about the facts - just get a job!"
One can debate if people "owe you a job" or not, but I'm am damn tired of listening to people who seem to think we live in a meritocracy with enough jobs for all. Their immunity to facts and utter blindness to the world around them is simply inexcusable, and not one of them has a good answer to the unemployment problem so long as the situation does not affect them or - through good fortune - they are able to find work after losing their job. And yet to the bitter end, they still think that their "skills" spared them from the bread lines, or they honestly think they shouldn't have to care what happens to anybody else around them since "we gotta make more money!"
I can agree with "no one owes you a job" only to a certain extent. It is ironic that these people claim that, and then say "do X, Y and Z and you'll get a job." Wait, what? You can do certain things to make you more likely to get a job, i.e. get a relevant degree.
We have come to a point where there are more people available than jobs, and many jobs have several qualified candidates applying and it's "flip a coin" because it is so close.
This subject is very sensitive to me. I've been victimized by employers ever since I was of legal working age. I have never been given a fair shot no matter what I have done or tried. I've been looking for a job for almost 6 years now. It's funny because people talk about how they will never work again, but for me it's like I'll never be given a chance to work period.
Is this way I'm feeling natural, growing up during a recession? When you can't even get a job sweeping somebody's floor without having 3 years of experience and this other stuff?
There are days where I really don't know what to feel or think, is this it? Am I never going to have a shot at a life? I cry about it when I remember how shady, unresponsive, and deceitful employers are and the things they've done to me. They way they've treated me. Imagine having only a GED, and every single job listing in your town says "experience required" in some form or another. Imagine having no car and only a bike, with a limited range of where to look for jobs.
The limited Bus lines are useless for me, because you have to work weekends and have an open availability schedule to be taken seriously.
Pretty much every employer around where I live has a bad attitude or mentality. Either they won't call me after I apply, or they act interested and then I never hear from them again. Or they tell me they will call me, and hire someone else and never call. Or they repost the "now hiring!" ad over and over. Or I apply and follow up, only to be pounced on by some rude manager that sounds like they are about to blow a gasket. It's like this with EVERY job I go for.
It's like something is making these people act irresponsible towards others. Is it because there's 1000s of applicants? Around here? It can't be though, could it? I just wish I knew why they act the way they do. It has nothing to do with being busy, it's literally like these people don't want you to get a job!!
Since I was 18 I've been applying to all kinds of jobs including: restaurants, fast food, retail, warehouse, manufacturing positions, it's been so long I don't even remember what I applied for. Lots of labor stuff and I never got a single bite.
I can't even get a job at the local grocery stores or fast food places, despite applying to them for years off and on. Staffing agencies want 1 year work history or can't help you. When you ask them why the jobs require experience they don't answer. Labor ready and places like that are out of range for me. But wait, I still don't have a car so I'll be paying for transportation out of the already chump change you get working there. I've been to employment counselors, vocrehab, job developers, pretty much everything an unemployed person could do. I've been told that the resume stuff is useless to me right now, what I need is someone to say you're hired. But nobody will hire or nobody is hiring.
It's almost like the universe has put a freeze on any progress for me.
There is just something going on behind the scenes, somewhere, I know there is and it's hampering me from moving forward. For me, the door was always LOCKED, no way to get in. "We don't want you". No matter what I tried and continue to try. Years ago I was being told what I'm told now by people. That's why it's gotten tiring.
I can't even get a trade apprenticeship because you need a $3,000 certification and 3 years of experience in the field before them guys will look at you. There is none of that starting at the bottom BS people talk about. Their help wanted ads say it. I thought all you need was a diploma, and willing to learn but apparently that's not how it works around here.
I have to live with the fact that every application I fill out is going to be ignored. The phone never rings. Not even an interview. Not even an email. Just living with this is hard enough on me. But it hurts when the employer stops communicating abruptly and leaves me hanging. It hurts really bad after happening thousands of times over.
I can't even get a person on craigslist to reply to my email about needing help moving their washing machine for 30 bucks. Is there really thousands of people willing to move a washing machine for 30 bucks? Is it that bad? It happens every single time I email someone.
I need a job to help continue my education, but it appears I will just never find one because of the society we are living in, and the people around me that inhabit it. If I can't even obtain an odd job, what chances do I have elsewhere?
I even offered to pay money, if someone hired me. Nobody was interested in my offer. Is it another sign that there's no work to be had here? I felt bad about doing this at first, but I'm willing to do it. It's just like some nerd or hermit that is willing to pay a woman to go on a date. We're all human, it's just some of us have it more difficult.
You can read my story all across this forum. I'm a legitimate case. Every option I think I have or people might think I have is out of reach to me.
My whole mindset and outlook on life in the last few years has changed. The world is a cruel place where nobody cares and anything can happen to you. 95% of people are scum. The others are people like me, who caught themselves in bad situations that can't pull themselves out of or can't even get the ball rolling to begin with.
The hardest part is trying to figure out what you are going to do for the rest of your "time", or how you can 'bypass' and still come through. How do you live without a job? How do you live without money?
Then, when I'm on the street, someone is going to tell me to get a job and stop being lazy. But they don't know my story. They don't know that I never had a chance to begin with. That's what I hate about you other humans. You don't understand me. You think I'm making excuses and being lazy when it's YOU ALL who are really responsible. But it's easier to blame the person you are hurting. Instead of hiring me for gods sake you have to keep holding me back and playing games about it.
If your story is true, than you have a profound appearance problem of some kind. There is something about you that is turning people off, because it is not that hard to find a job. If you look crazy, like studded jewelry sticking out of your face, or blue hair, or some other ridiculous style statement that screams "don't take me seriously", or you are obese, or what not, then you are having extreme first impression issues. This sounds mean? Perhaps yes, it does. But you have to look like a normal well-adjusted human being to get a job. Even if you are not (and really most of us are not).
The bike thing could also be an issue. If you don't have a car, you need to be living in an urban area, it's that simple. If you are in the suburbs and you don't have a car, you are going to look like a failure.
The problem is not the world, or the "employers". Employers are just people who need something done. You are not looking like a solution to their problem. It is you who has to fix that. How do you present? Do you look and smell good and put off a happy vibe? Or do you look marginal and put off a desperate vibe?
I can agree with "no one owes you a job" only to a certain extent. It is ironic that these people claim that, and then say "do X, Y and Z and you'll get a job." Wait, what? You can do certain things to make you more likely to get a job, i.e. get a relevant degree.
We have come to a point where there are more people available than jobs, and many jobs have several qualified candidates applying and it's "flip a coin" because it is so close.
Agreed.
Just to knock some sense back into the "derp, get a job!" crowd who love to ignore the facts regarding the number of people out of work vs. the number of jobs openings, here's some official data derived from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics:
1) If you believe the U3 unemployment numbers - hahahaha... okay, that was funny - there are 2.6 unemployed people per job opening.
2) If you believe the more realistic U6 unemployment number, there are 5.1 people out of work per job opening.
So... all you corporate fan-boys out there, what do you tell the people who literally CANNOT get a job because there ISN'T one? Are we just to assume that they "duh, lack skills, are lazy, and have no education?" Are we going to continue to play pretend that there's some magic "secret pool of jobs" somewhere, and they just "need to move there?" Are we going to keep shouting "get a job!" over and over again, like a child throwing a tantrum? Or, maybe they can all "start their own business!" despite the near certainty of failure? Any ideas? Anyone?
At what point do we acknowledge that action need to be taken to bring the jobs back to this nation? At what point do we stop turning a blind eye to companies employing illegals and replacing Americans with visa workers because it's cheaper? When do we stop exploiting near-slaves in 3rd world nations because it lets some fat-cat get a bigger bonus? When do we stop selling out our neighbor for excess profits that will never help most of us in any way?
Sadly, I know the answer... Most people, so long as they are not part of that 4 out of 5 unemployed workers who literally will not be able to get a job simply don't care... and yet they'll defend the "rights" of those at top to exploit them to the last.
We have come to a point where there are more people available than jobs, and many jobs have several qualified candidates applying and it's "flip a coin" because it is so close.
This is essentially what happens. Employers narrow it down to those who are most deserving of the job... and then just use less important factors to decide between the remaining candidates. They have to choose somehow.
What's key here, is that those who make it to the last round are those who are most deserving based on any criteria. It's unfortunate for the people from this group that get shafted. But, while deserving, they aren't owed anything.
The rest, aren't as deserving... which is fine. Because tomorrow is another day.
This is essentially what happens. Employers narrow it down to those who are most deserving of the job... and then just use less important factors to decide between the remaining candidates. They have to choose somehow.
What's key here, is that those who make it to the last round are those who are most deserving based on any criteria. It's unfortunate for the people from this group that get shafted. But, while deserving, they aren't owed anything.
The rest, aren't as deserving.
Are they "most deserving" when the company hires based on: age, gender, race, health, looks, drinking-buddy status, which college you graduated from, and so on?
Just tossing that out there... this is not a meritocracy, and those who are deemed "imperfect" should not be left to die.
I'm always amazed by the number of people on both sides of any heated topic who assign motivation to the opposing side and proceed to argue against that rather than what people on the other side actually say
Doesn't matter to me if one is ranting about those lazy bums who don't want to work or ranting about those evil rich people who don't want to pay -- both make the same mistake - assigning a simple and fully negative motivation that is easy to argue against, as opposed to recognizing a complex behavior that is not so easy to demonize. Neither side seems to be interested in viewing the world from anyone else's perspective.
I've worked since I was 16 (now 44), earlier if you count mowing lawns and stuff like that. I've yet to meet anyone who simply did not want to work, and I've never met anyone who simply did not want to pay for something they value. Life and work just isn't as simple as the politicians make it out to be.
Now getting back to the OP, 20+ pages ago.
"No one owes you anything" -- patently incorrect. At the very least, all people in a civil society owe everyone else a basic level of civil behavior if they wish to interact in that society. How far that basic level extends is wide open to debate, and is really what most people seem to have been discussing here, though I doubt most see it that way.
"No one owes you a job" -- entirely true. A job is nothing more than you trading your time or skills for money. I would say instead that you owe it to yourself to have a job.
Why wouldn't a person be in a position to "cultivate a stronger network" or "search more broadly in different job functions?"
It case of limited resources that we see in the environment all the time. Some people just don't have those resources close enough to us. Say Toastmasters or any sort of job skills group. If you don't have the money to drive in a car, know people who are going, have a bus line that goes there or has a friend who can take you there, you aren't going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
So jobs are welfare?
In a way. We all need work to get money to provide ourselves with basic needs of shelter and food (water is a different story.) If we don't have money, one has to be trained in wilderness survival and studied Caveman in college because that is all they will be able to do to SOMEWHAT live without money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
You know we don't have massive unemployment in the US right? The unemployment rate was considerably higher from 1975-1985 than it is now.
The number was compiled differently then. It's not an exact apples to apples comparison, more like a Granny Smith to Golden Delicious. Both apples but different in taste, texture and skin color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Sorry but no. It's not necessarily someone's fault that they are where they are but the world still isn't going to hand you a job just because you are a nice person.
That wasn't the point. The point was that for the most part, most people who say "no one owes you a job" cross-sections with those who believe if not just spout out the just-world fallacy of you deserve to be unemployed for karma reasons. Are there good people who did nothing wrong out of work, of course and they just want a opportunity for a job. That is where I stand. Give me an opportunity to work and I'll show you I can do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
So how do you explain the unemployment rate going from over 10% in 2010 to under 7% today? That is a 30% reduction in unemployment. There are jobs for people.
10% to 7% was over three and a half years. The unemployment rate could have slipped through any of these possible outcomes.:
Death of unemployed workers.
Unemployed workers becoming a stay-at-home mom or dad.
Unemployed workers becoming discouraged workers dropping out of the labor force.
Unemployed workers not looking for work because they re-entered college.
Unemployed workers going into business for themselves.
Unemployed workers becoming part-time employed workers but wanting to be full time.
The Unemployment Rate used more of a random sample with jobs (full-time or part-time) than those without jobs searching.
Any number of these could be why we had a 30% reduction in over three and a half years. Now yes, the final one is an EXTREME case but a possible one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
That's how business works. The purpose of having a business is so that the owners can make money. The purpose of business is not to do good, it's not to provide jobs, it's to make money. Nobody would ever start a business if they couldn't make money.
Charities and not for profit companies are started up to not make money (in the traditional business sense)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Accountability for what? It's not illegal to eliminate jobs. I don't agree with taxpayer subsidies for companies. I think they should be eliminated. However, it is your responsibility to find a way for you to support yourself. It will never ever under any circumstances be somebody's responsibility to support you.
So what if there is no way to support yourself, then what do you do? And please don't tell me Dr. Death is an option...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
You have to make sure you have job skills. If the marketplace for jobs change you have to change. If the marketplace for jobs moves you have to move. Blame is not important.
Again, this goes back to resources. I can learn engineering through free online methods. Unless I have a job that I used them in, it likely won't lead to a job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebrator
Yeah, but you said businesses don't exist to create jobs. So why should he bother?
Agreed, can't rep this more but you are right on the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Why is this an issue? If I take in $100 and my profit is $10 isn't that BETTER than taking ins $100 and having a profit of $3? Businesses exist to make money, not to employ people.
It is but you need people working and companies moving to sell your products and services to. No customer base, you're dead. You can only cut costs for so long. Eventually these cost cutting eat into sales and slowly bring you closer to break-even revenue. If you go past that point, you won't be in business for much longer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
No-what I said that businesses exist to make money. That does not imply anything about being debased or exploitative.
Not in it of itself but many have historically done that and have been slapped around by the government at different times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
No. Businesses employ people because they have to in order to make money. The do not have the responsibility to employ people. They do it because it is part of running a business.
Momma's wrong again. Businesses that sell to consumers need people employed to buy their product or service. With other businesses (perhaps even themselves) cutting jobs, stagnating if not slashing pay (whether it is less hours for wage employees or lower yearly pay for salary.) By companies cutting jobs and stagnating pay across the board the consumer base is smaller and smaller. Eventually we may see a day of few companies because they lost their consumer base and the revenue streams that come with it. Fewer companies means fewer jobs. Anyone else see the math problem here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Well if someone is owed a job then yes you are saying people should have jobs because they exist.
Many people have pointed to the wink-wink, nudge-nudge owed jobs through the "good ol' boy network" so I guess some are owed because they exist (if only for a mere means)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Businesses don't exist solely to create jobs. However, successful businesses do create jobs even though that is not their sole purpose. If a person is in a place where there aren't enough jobs that person should move to where there are enough jobs
But the problem is not enough are successful today. If they are not having record sales, their record profits are coming from cost cutting. Nowhere has cost cutting lead to growth. Many businesses are just in quarter-to-quarter survival and not decade-to-decade survival like they were even decades ago,
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
