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some point in the early 90s is when college degree started losing value, and choice of major became more and more important. Do young people today major in economically useless subjects because of ignorance (lack of knowledge about education bubble), or laziness? Somehow intuitively, they must understand that they can't drop 50k on an economically useless major and expect to find a decent job when everyone else is going to college too, right?
You have this all wrong.
Until the years following WWII, colleges taught "Liberal Arts and Sciences" at the undergraduate level.
Polytechnic Institutes taught engineering and related subjects.
Agricultural and Technical (Aggie Tech) colleges taught the sons of farmers the family trade.
Nurses were taught at "hospital schools" - three year programs where they apprenticed and were trained as registered nurses and received diplomas. Teachers were taught at "Normal Schools" or "Female Training Schools". Most teachers and nurses did not have degrees.
Medical Doctors had undergraduate degrees in what ever subject they desired - from English Literature to American History - as long as they followed a pre-medical curricula - which is not a major.
The same would apply to dentists, and veterinarians.
Majoring in biology, physics or chemistry was not and has never been a necessity. And those subjects fall under the realm of "Liberal Arts and Sciences" - they still do.
Similarly, lawyers majored in any subject that they wanted to explore, but followed a "pre-law" curricula.
Professional training occurred at the graduate level. And, in most cases, it still does.W
So, those were the "good old days".
What I am hearing from you, and from others on this thread, is a profound misunderstanding of the mission of higher education.
Colleges and Universities never were "trade schools". This is not a "new thing" - it's an old thing.
The purpose of higher education was always rather blurry, but it was, and remains, for those who understand it, first and foremost, a way to learn more and to develop a knowledge base and critical thinking skills that are required for higher paying possitions. It gives requisite entry into professional schools. And, this; may be a delicate subject for some, but it conveys entry into the upper echelons of the middle class.
It is a right of passage in many families. My own, included.
A frivolous right of passage? No. Not at all.
The average student debt in the United is around 25 - 30K.
What do I think is constitutes frivolity? Buying your high school student a new car for graduation, and not expecting at least a four year degree.
**Caveat: If you're smart and go to a good school, your degree isn't useless**
**Caveat: If your Liberal Arts degree is "applicable to the real world" then it's not useless**
So basically, if you're a mediocre student with a degree from a mediocre college AND you are struggling to find gainful employment, then OP WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU!!! Step right up and tell him your story of why YOU chose a useless degree!! Because that was your plan along, right?! To deliberately do...eh, alright, shrug...in high school, and go to an...eh, alright college, and chose the most useless degree available and then to struggle to find an "economically useful" career, all so that you can judged on the Internet, no???
what the hell are you talking about? accounting is one of the degrees i listed up there, and in most top schools, accounting is not offered. economics is the closest thing. If you can get into a top ten, then economics is not useless. The problem is that most don't attend top schools, in which case economics major isn't very profitable. Even worse, these students in less prestigious schools major in liberal arts. While economics is a liberal art, the real world IS ECONOMICS. Accounting (and business, and all commerce, which is what makes money, and hence jobs) are all applied economics. Economics would be the only exception, for it is indeed a liberal art, but at top schools, it provides the economic value of almost an accounting degree, and qualifies you for business jobs that other liberal arts majors or economics major from lower ranked schools are not (because economics is not a very rigorous major and because the difficulty of program varies at each school, top school degrees, which require very high SAT and gpas for admission, would be evidence of high iq, and economics degree from lower ranked schools would not) . Also, lower ranked schools often offer accounting major, which would be preferred over economics major, all things held constant. Economics degree from top 10 school = high iq + applicable knowledge of the real world.
Also, basically what is an useless major is something that isn't quantitative (subjective, opinionated underwater basket weaving that 95 percent of majors are) . The heart of economics is math - minimally at the undergrad level, but still economics is applied mathematics, and is also what explains the real world. Economics is both quant and applicable- VERY APPLICABLE.
your first counter/caveat is correct. if you're smartl, your degree, no matter what what is it in and from where, isn't useless. Look at Bill Gates, Steve jobs, Zuckerberg. All dropped out of college and are the richest men in the nation. Why? Because these guys are genuises. Their IQs are in the 99.99th percentile. For most, this will not work for them. If you are that bright, college is a waste of time.
Last edited by JustCuriouss; 11-12-2015 at 03:28 PM..
I think willingness to move to the job plays a part in that.
I was a military brat and then spent a career in the military. Moving was always part of my life--I never lived anywhere that I didn't know when I was leaving. Even now in a civilian career, I may not know when I'm moving, but I've moved a couple of times to advance myself, and won't hesitate to move again.
Yet, I'm constantly amazed at how many people live within 100 miles of their hometowns, how many would never move, and how many can't even imagine themselves moving.
Exactly.
I'm also a veteran, not retired military, but a veteran nonetheless and I move where I have to go, and that's not always where I want to go.
People have this entitlement mentality today. 9 times out of 10 or in reality 10 times out of 10, I don't want to move where I have to move, but I have to move there if I want to progress in my career, so I try to make the best of it when I get there.
oh, you mean the holy trinity of Harvard, Princeton, Yale, right?
Doesn't have to be. There are actually about 350 plus colleges and universities in the US that are well regarded among those "in the know" Check out the Princeton Review's top US colleges or The Fisk Guide. These schools give the best ROI - and the best educations.
They are all rather selective to highly selective.
Doesn't have to be. There are actually about 350 plus colleges and universities in the US that are well regarded among those "in the know" Check out the Princeton Review's top US colleges or The Fisk Guide. These schools give the best ROI - and the best educations.
They are all rather selective to highly selective.
even 75 top unis was stretching. 350??? at the rate that colleges are pumping out graduates?
even 75 top unis was stretching. 350??? at the rate that colleges are pumping out graduates?
I think you could easily list 50 elite universities, another 75 that are good or are strong in particular areas, and then a couple hundred that have some kind of honors program that is quite good.
When you have people telling you constantly that your degree title doesn't matter, and that employers just want to see a degree, it makes more sense. I've heard this so often from people I ask for advice about career paths that it makes me sick. Your degree title only doesn't matter if you have specific skills and experience to make it not matter.
I'd like to know who exactly has been saying this.
**Caveat: If you're smart and go to a good school, your degree isn't useless**
**Caveat: If your Liberal Arts degree is "applicable to the real world" then it's not useless**
So basically, if you're a mediocre student with a degree from a mediocre college AND you are struggling to find gainful employment, then OP WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU!!! Step right up and tell him your story of why YOU chose a useless degree!! Because that was your plan along, right?! To deliberately do...eh, alright, shrug...in high school, and go to an...eh, alright college, and chose the most useless degree available and then to struggle to find an "economically useful" career, all so that you can judged on the Internet, no???
Actually, a degree from any accredited college, works in many fields. Sales, management, insurance and Civil Service (state and government) jobs.
I've never met a liberal/progressive with calloused-hands.
There's something basically the matter with that.
Just sayin.
Why should you? We are generally white collar worker who value education.
Just sayin'.
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