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...Why would someone think a doctor has more value than say a taxi driver taking that doctor to an emergency...
REALLY?!?!?!
BTW - taxis don't take doctors to emergencies, that's just not how it works.
Your arguments just don't hold up. In fact, what you describe is a nightmarish dystopian society where some elite echelon defines what everyone (the proletariat) should earn and how they should live.
Why would someone think a doctor has more value than say a taxi driver taking that doctor to an emergency.
A person who loves to teach and is good at it, might pass because of the wage being offered. That sounds like a huge opportunity lose for everyone.
People in retail would offer better service to you, because they want to be there, not just because they have to.
And so on.
Ok, so everyone is on a level playing field. Now the norm is 80 hours per week, 5 days vacation, from age 23 to 80. (must go longer due to lack of production in this "world" you believe in)
Doesn't matter if you are digging ditches or making copies on a printer while sitting at a desk in a comfortable room with people to talk to.
Both are important, both need to be done and are very important, both should be paid the same. Correct?
Ok, so everyone is on a level playing field. Now the norm is 80 hours per week, 5 days vacation, from age 23 to 80. (must go longer due to lack of production in this "world" you believe in)
Doesn't matter if you are digging ditches or making copies on a printer while sitting at a desk in a comfortable room with people to talk to.
Both are important, both need to be done and are very important, both should be paid the same. Correct?
Correct. Without the ditch digger there is no water supply or waste removal.
Without the sanitary conditions, well we all know what that would look like (or smell like). No one would even be able to enter the work place. That high level degree is suddenly worthless. I have never held the position, but am very thankful to the person willing to clean the sink before I need it.
And can an example be accepted as an example only? Like the taxi driver....(just an example).
Why would someone think a doctor has more value than say a taxi driver taking that doctor to an emergency.
Value might be too strong of a word, but you have to consider the time, money, and specific skill-set/intelligence required for these two jobs. Anyone with working eyes can get their driver's license (judging by the incompetent driving I witness daily), and become a taxi/Uber/Lyft driver. Literally the only requirements are a valid driver's license, and relatively clean record. Now look at what's required to become a doctor, and the consequences for not being a competent one... 4 years of college, 7+ years of post-graduate work, internships, residencies, etc; and both financial and emotional devastation when something goes wrong. Still think they should be paid equally? I sure don't.
Also, I would assume most doctors aren't relying on taxis to get to the hospital in an emergency. They either have reliable transportation themselves, or are already sleeping at the hospital while on call.
Correct. Without the ditch digger there is no water supply or waste removal.
Without the sanitary conditions, well we all know what that would look like (or smell like). No one would even be able to enter the work place. That high level degree is suddenly worthless. I have never held the position, but am very thankful to the person willing to clean the sink before I need it.
Yeah, but who's going to even apply to ditch-digging or sewage jobs, if they can earn the same money flipping burgers or driving a cab? And conversely, who's going to waste the time and stress becoming a doctor, if they can earn that same salary at a cushy office job? Sure, you'll get folks who do it for the love of the profession - but money is always a driving force, too, and anyone who says otherwise is lying.
Correct. Without the ditch digger there is no water supply or waste removal.
Most ditches are dug using heavy equipment. A lot of these heavy equipment operators that deal with sewers work for city or county government. Although it's private sector for septic. But septic workers use heavy equipment mostly too.
Gone are the days of digging ditches with shovels.
Some want to, some don't, and some should. I never said it'd be for the rest of your life.
I except that from myself and my kids, bust your ***** when your young and your body can work harder than your mind. Later in life your mind will work harder than your body will/can.
As far as health, as for me and the people who have worked for me, the harder you work the healthier you are. I use my body much harder than my mind when I was younger. Yes, I'm slower now but can still do as much as I did before because I'm much more efficient.
We also don't complain about work cause we aren't over worked these days. Want to know what hard work is? Go back 50-75 years. Did they ****** and moan? Nope. We've become wimps, me included.
You can't equate not having enough employees to cover a busy store to cutting pay for those employees when it's not busy.
If you're in business, you have to look ahead to more than just the next month. Yeah, if you want to stock your store with only two employees saving money on employees when it's slow but losing present and potential customers when it's busy, feel free. That's how your business never picks up and eventually closes. Meantime, if you have enough employees to take care of the busy times and it does get slow, there's always something else they can be doing besides standing around.
I know you never said working 80 hour a week jobs would or should be for the rest of a person's life. But that's where we're headed if someone just wants to keep a roof over his head.
And as for your comment about hard work...back in the 80s, I knew someone who had worked during the Depression. His comment then (about people in the 70s and 80s) was that they didn't work as hard as people in the 30s did. And you're saying that people now don't work as hard as people in the 50s and 60s did. Each generation thinks younger people don't do anything difficult.
As for myself, for one semester I worked a full time job, went to high school full time, took two extra classes, and worked an additional 12 hours a week at another job, just so I could graduate. What did that teach me about hard work? Two things. One, that I could do it if I really wanted to and two, that I never wanted to for anything that bad again. I spent 6 month trying not to fall asleep everywhere I went and it's a sucky way to live. I'd rather be poor than live like that again. Likewise when I had a 30 hour commute on top of a 40 hour a week job, it totally sucked. I did that for a year before I packed it in for a worse job closer to home.
So if anyone tells me they don't want to work 80 hour a week jobs for the rest of their life, I can surely sympathize with that and I wouldn't expect anyone to have to do so unless it was temporary and they needed to get themselves out of a hole. Otherwise, I don't think anyone should have to wrok hours like that and I don't care how wimpy others think they may be.
You can't equate not having enough employees to cover a busy store to cutting pay for those employees when it's not busy.
If you're in business, you have to look ahead to more than just the next month. Yeah, if you want to stock your store with only two employees saving money on employees when it's slow but losing present and potential customers when it's busy, feel free. That's how your business never picks up and eventually closes. Meantime, if you have enough employees to take care of the busy times and it does get slow, there's always something else they can be doing besides standing around.
I know you never said working 80 hour a week jobs would or should be for the rest of a person's life. But that's where we're headed if someone just wants to keep a roof over his head.
And as for your comment about hard work...back in the 80s, I knew someone who had worked during the Depression. His comment then (about people in the 70s and 80s) was that they didn't work as hard as people in the 30s did. And you're saying that people now don't work as hard as people in the 50s and 60s did. Each generation thinks younger people don't do anything difficult.
As for myself, for one semester I worked a full time job, went to high school full time, took two extra classes, and worked an additional 12 hours a week at another job, just so I could graduate. What did that teach me about hard work? Two things. One, that I could do it if I really wanted to and two, that I never wanted to for anything that bad again. I spent 6 month trying not to fall asleep everywhere I went and it's a sucky way to live. I'd rather be poor than live like that again. Likewise when I had a 30 hour commute on top of a 40 hour a week job, it totally sucked. I did that for a year before I packed it in for a worse job closer to home.
So if anyone tells me they don't want to work 80 hour a week jobs for the rest of their life, I can surely sympathize with that and I wouldn't expect anyone to have to do so unless it was temporary and they needed to get themselves out of a hole. Otherwise, I don't think anyone should have to wrok hours like that and I don't care how wimpy others think they may be.
It's ironic that as part of change, Henry Ford did his thing with doubling the workers' wage to $5 an hour, which would be $123 in today's money according to an inflation calculator. He also pushed for 8, NOT 9 hour workdays, feeling that was enough to get things done, but not burn them out. He also wanted his employees to be able to afford their cars they're making, so the doubling their wage let them afford one after 4 month's of work.* This jump started the middle class economy. The irony is nowadays, we're heading right back where we came from.
* A visiting Soviet Commissar was quoted saying...
‘Ah! The capitalist bosses’ cars!’
No one could convince him that this great sea of automobiles belonged to the 60,000 Ford workers of the Rouge.”
It's ironic that as part of change, Henry Ford did his thing with doubling the workers' wage to $5 an hour, which would be $123 in today's money according to an inflation calculator.
You can't equate not having enough employees to cover a busy store to cutting pay for those employees when it's not busy.
If you're in business, you have to look ahead to more than just the next month. Yeah, if you want to stock your store with only two employees saving money on employees when it's slow but losing present and potential customers when it's busy, feel free. That's how your business never picks up and eventually closes. Meantime, if you have enough employees to take care of the busy times and it does get slow, there's always something else they can be doing besides standing around.
I know you never said working 80 hour a week jobs would or should be for the rest of a person's life. But that's where we're headed if someone just wants to keep a roof over his head.
And as for your comment about hard work...back in the 80s, I knew someone who had worked during the Depression. His comment then (about people in the 70s and 80s) was that they didn't work as hard as people in the 30s did. And you're saying that people now don't work as hard as people in the 50s and 60s did. Each generation thinks younger people don't do anything difficult.
As for myself, for one semester I worked a full time job, went to high school full time, took two extra classes, and worked an additional 12 hours a week at another job, just so I could graduate. What did that teach me about hard work? Two things. One, that I could do it if I really wanted to and two, that I never wanted to for anything that bad again. I spent 6 month trying not to fall asleep everywhere I went and it's a sucky way to live. I'd rather be poor than live like that again. Likewise when I had a 30 hour commute on top of a 40 hour a week job, it totally sucked. I did that for a year before I packed it in for a worse job closer to home.
So if anyone tells me they don't want to work 80 hour a week jobs for the rest of their life, I can surely sympathize with that and I wouldn't expect anyone to have to do so unless it was temporary and they needed to get themselves out of a hole. Otherwise, I don't think anyone should have to wrok hours like that and I don't care how wimpy others think they may be.
This is what I'm hearing you say, please do tell me if I'm wrong. Your saying, in a nutshell, that we shouldn't have to work that many hours to be able to afford what we want.
Just wanting to understand more. Thanks!
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