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This assumes that employees in HR are ethical. They are humans like everyone else. I am not disputing you all's experience, but not all HR departments follow the law.
This strikes me as a bit paranoid. If HR really wants to discriminate in the initial review process, it is easy to do based upon name and other items that will pop on the resume.
Plus, if they are using the EEO questionnaire to discriminate, that will be evident statistically when they report how many people of a given race/gender/ethnicity are hired when compared to the applicant pool. In other words, the best way to determine if there is discrimination is to fill out the form.
This assumes that employees in HR are ethical. They are humans like everyone else. I am not disputing you all's experience, but not all HR departments follow the law.
More will follow the law than the number that won't. What would be the endgame of not following the law? Would a company risk a major legal violation at this stage of the hiring process? I would think most would follow the law at the application stage.
The reality is, you never know. I've witnessed blatant ethical and legal violations from HR personnel. I will agree that the law breakers are in the minority. Most employees and companies are not going to take the risk. But if you have people who aren't properly trained...things happen.
The reality is, you never know. I've witnessed blatant ethical and legal violations from HR personnel. I will agree that the law breakers are in the minority. Most employees and companies are not going to take the risk. But if you have people who aren't properly trained...things happen.
I am with you.
I'm a white woman. I would consider myself attractive. I have been in my business for 13 years. I am 36. I look like I am 16. I can't do anything about it. I try to dress older. I wear make-up... but it is what it is.
Now yeah they can't tell that from an EEO form but once I come in for an interview, I can prove I know what I'm doing... but b/c of my looks, people don't usually take me seriously.
"Clients are not going to take someone with a baby face seriously. They want a professional who they can have full confidence in." I would say that @ 13 years I am a professional - but the look that I give off to people is that they think I look too young.
I get perfect reviews. I am one of the highest paid people @ my company but they will not promote me and they will not send me out to meet clients. I am currently trying to get a new job but I am having the same problem. No one wants to put me in front of clients.
I have nothing that can help my case other than being a female... but even that doesn't really help (and there's a whole other slew of things that happen when you are female - co's sometimes don't want to hire females b/c they feel we will have babies & leave - I don't want kids ever & that ship has sailed for me anyhow). I am not a minority, I am not a veteran, I don't have a disability... I have nothing that really helps my case.
I guess this is a larger issue than the EEO forms but they don't really help and I feel they're kind of stupid and they could be potentially used to break a tie.
Case in point:
let's say I am up for a job and so is someone else with the exact same qualifications except they are a black woman. When it comes down to it, they will use race in that scenario to break the tie. Otherwise, what else would they use to break the tie. That is where I feel the EEO forms could come into play.
This assumes that employees in HR are ethical. They are humans like everyone else. I am not disputing you all's experience, but not all HR departments follow the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdawg8181
I am with you.
I'm a white woman. I would consider myself attractive. I have been in my business for 13 years. I am 36. I look like I am 16. I can't do anything about it. I try to dress older. I wear make-up... but it is what it is.
Now yeah they can't tell that from an EEO form but once I come in for an interview, I can prove I know what I'm doing... but b/c of my looks, people don't usually take me seriously.
"Clients are not going to take someone with a baby face seriously. They want a professional who they can have full confidence in." I would say that @ 13 years I am a professional - but the look that I give off to people is that they think I look too young.
I get perfect reviews. I am one of the highest paid people @ my company but they will not promote me and they will not send me out to meet clients. I am currently trying to get a new job but I am having the same problem. No one wants to put me in front of clients.
I have nothing that can help my case other than being a female... but even that doesn't really help (and there's a whole other slew of things that happen when you are female - co's sometimes don't want to hire females b/c they feel we will have babies & leave - I don't want kids ever & that ship has sailed for me anyhow). I am not a minority, I am not a veteran, I don't have a disability... I have nothing that really helps my case.
I guess this is a larger issue than the EEO forms but they don't really help and I feel they're kind of stupid and they could be potentially used to break a tie.
Case in point:
let's say I am up for a job and so is someone else with the exact same qualifications except they are a black woman. When it comes down to it, they will use race in that scenario to break the tie. Otherwise, what else would they use to break the tie. That is where I feel the EEO forms could come into play.
Maybe I'm wrong. Just a hypothesis.
Um...your argument isn't valid at all at the APPLICATION stage. No one will know your race or about your baby face from an application. The EEO data is kept completely separate from the general application data.
Don't blame your career difficulties on non-existing racism. In fact, white women have benefited the most from pushes to increase diversity in the workplace.
Just because you believe you are the best candidate doesn't make it true.
When I worked in a college personnel office, they would proudly separate the form from the application. However, before that was done, application information was entered into the computer along with the racial data. The paper form was separated from the application after the computer entry and stored in a separate place so that no one knew about their non-white racial bias. If the wrong color was chosen for a hire, HR would require the hiring board select someone less qualified. There is a group near Sacramento which collects new college grad information by race so that when new jobs were announced, they would send the desired race list to the office and those select people would then load the application pool to show that certain groups were not applying for positions.
EEO survey results are used to determine if the hiring process has adverse impact on all groups surveyed. They are required by the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs. Also it is one way to evaluate the effectiveness of recruiting efforts. Individual responses are not shared with hiring officials. Most large employers use automated screening software to prepare a list of potentially qualified applicants who are then screened further by corporate recruiters.
EEO survey analysis is a statistical safeguard against systemic discrimination, including against males and Caucasians. It is important that all applicants respond to the survey to identify any bias.
I have never seen actions that Heidi60 described in private industry. I have sat on both sides of the HR audit table and have a degree in mathematics.
Case in point:
let's say I am up for a job and so is someone else with the exact same qualifications except they are a black woman. When it comes down to it, they will use race in that scenario to break the tie. Otherwise, what else would they use to break the tie. That is where I feel the EEO forms could come into play.
Um yeah, you're definitely wrong in this scenario. The hiring manager doesn't even have the EEO data in front of them when reviewing your resume so they wouldn't be selecting someone over you based on race. The hiring manager would use your qualifications, experience, responses to interview questions, references, to make a decision once they were at the selection phase.
Case in point: let's say I am up for a job and so is someone else with the exact same qualifications except they are a black woman. When it comes down to it, they will use race in that scenario to break the tie. Otherwise, what else would they use to break the tie. That is where I feel the EEO forms could come into play.
Um yeah, you're definitely wrong in this scenario. The hiring manager doesn't even have the EEO data in front of them when reviewing your resume so they wouldn't be selecting someone over you based on race. The hiring manager would use your qualifications, experience, responses to interview questions, references, to make a decision once they were at the selection phase.
But they can see your skin color.
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