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Not at all, I would say that MOST men choose not to be nurses, not that they CAN'T be. I've never said women can't do tech, it's just that for the most part they choose not to go down that career path. And my hypothesis is because of self-selection, for both men and women.
Why would they choose not to, though? Women are subtly discouraged from pursuing hard sciences & engineering from a young age. I was never encouraged to enter this field. I'm fortunate that I stumbled into it, but I've had to fight for respect everywhere I go.
I know many women who have left the field because of this. They're ambitious but are tired of paying the motherhood or overall female "penalty."
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek
Why would they choose not to, though? Women are subtly discouraged from pursuing hard sciences & engineering from a young age. I was never encouraged to enter this field. I'm fortunate that I stumbled into it, but I've had to fight for respect everywhere I go.
I know many women who have left the field because of this. They're ambitious but are tired of paying the motherhood or overall female "penalty."
I'll buy this, and I think it goes to my cultural bias point. But cultural bias and sexism are two different things. Thinking as a parent and society, a girl would be better suited for one thing, while boy for another, is an example of natural selection/division of labor that has propagated our species since the beginning of time.
Not at all, I would say that MOST men choose not to be nurses, not that they CAN'T be. I've never said women can't do tech, it's just that for the most part they choose not to go down that career path. And my hypothesis is because of self-selection, for both men and women.
Self selection? So all the men here on CD complaining about low wages and no job opportunities have just self selected a lower class lifestyle? Obstacles don't exist?
I'll buy this, and I think it goes to my cultural bias point. But cultural bias and sexism are two different things. Thinking as a parent and society, a girl would be better suited for one thing, while boy for another, is an example of natural selection/division of labor that has propagated our species since the beginning of time.
Evolution doesn't work in 50 year increments.
Both are at work here...cultural bias to keep us out of tech to begin with, and sexism to chase out the dwindling numbers who choose to pursue it. You do realize that tech has a much lower percentage of women in it than it did 30 years ago, correct? This has neatly correlated with the rise in importance of Silicon Valley and the introduction of the H1B visa. Both have put pressure on women to exit the field.
Why would they choose not to, though? Women are subtly discouraged from pursuing hard sciences & engineering from a young age. I was never encouraged to enter this field. I'm fortunate that I stumbled into it, but I've had to fight for respect everywhere I go.
I know many women who have left the field because of this. They're ambitious but are tired of paying the motherhood or overall female "penalty."
So true. Engineering was a field that I was interested in but it was strongly suggested that the college of education or nursing would be a better fit. Almost 20 years later and I still regret not pursuing a degree in engineering. I'm looking into it now but I'm disheartened to hear that things haven't really changed.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal
Self selection? So all the men here on CD complaining about low wages and no job opportunities have just self selected a lower class lifestyle? Obstacles don't exist?
Of course they've selected a lower class lifestyle. It's called bad choices on so many fronts. But, what does that have to with sexism? Since when did you start believing the reason why someone is not successful is due to some sort of structural disadvantage?
I'm a member of the most vilified religion in America today, and all I see is opportunity around me.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek
Both are at work here...cultural bias to keep us out of tech to begin with, and sexism to chase out the dwindling numbers who choose to pursue it. You do realize that tech has a much lower percentage of women in it than it did 30 years ago, correct? This has neatly correlated with the rise in importance of Silicon Valley and the introduction of the H1B visa. Both have put pressure on women to exit the field.
You're giving way too much credit to bean counters. H1B visa holders are brought in because of: a.) cost, and b.) ability to treat these holders more as machines to be optimized, rather than human beings.
So true. Engineering was a field that I was interested in but it was strongly suggested that the college of education or nursing would be a better fit. Almost 20 years later and I still regret not pursuing a degree in engineering. I'm looking into it now but I'm disheartened to hear that things haven't really changed.
Nope; if anything, it's worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolovefromANFIELD
You're giving way too much credit to bean counters. H1B visa holders are brought in because of: a.) cost, and b.) ability to treat these holders more as machines to be optimized, rather than human beings.
It's economics, not sexism.
You're missing my point.
1.) The overwhelming majority of H1B visas go to nationals of a specific country.
2.) The overwhelming majority of H1B visas are issued to men.
3.) The culture of the majority receiving H1B visas is patriarchal and has serious problems with women's rights...this is well-documented in the media.
I can't name the country because of TOS, but we all know what country it is.
To think that this hasn't had a negative impact on women in tech would be ludicrous.
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek
Nope; if anything, it's worse.
You're missing my point.
1.) The overwhelming majority of H1B visas go to nationals of a specific country.
2.) The overwhelming majority of H1B visas are issued to men.
3.) The culture of the majority receiving H1B visas is patriarchal and has serious problems with women's rights...this is well-documented in the media.
I can't name the country because of TOS, but we all know what country it is.
To think that this hasn't had a negative impact on women in tech would be ludicrous.
I know exactly who you speak of, and I entirely get your point. But, the disproportionate impact of such policies and people brought in on women is not because of sexism, but cost. The fact that the worst place in the world for women is I...a, and therefore affecting their relationships here in the US is just a byproduct of an economic decision. Bean counters that bring them can give two hoots about women, men, or anything other than just profit.
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