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You obviously do not understand what's happening here.
It was mentioned that America is a race based country rather than an ethnic based one. It was also mentioned early in the thread (if you read it) that ethnicity based on language and culture is a better way to group people rather than by racial groups based on skin color so I didn't think I'd find myself explaining this. Therefore, I broke down the racial categories as they are generally used in the US and identified the ethnic groups that those broad racial categories cover. Because of that, there will be some overlap. Two people with the same skin color are not always the same ethnicity. Therefore I can include Hispanic because HISPANIC IS NOT A RACE! Hispanic is and ethnic term created mainly in the US to describe Spanish speaking people irrespective of their race, nationality or ethnicity.
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Originally Posted by mateo45
^ I see what you mean, and that's actually a very important distinction, that the U.S. does have a remarkable array of "cultures", which easily transcend patterns of 'race' and 'ethnicity'. For example good luck trying to find much in common between asians in NYC's Chinatown, and asians in Silicon Valley. And even though they're both "hispanic", there are huge cultural (and political) differences between, say, Mexican- and Cuban-Americans. So big deal, Canada has the French… but even they wanna have their own country, instead of 'diversity'!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo
At least you get it. There are even differences between the different Chinese in the Bay Area. Those in Silicon Valley are mainly Mandarin where as those in San Francisco and Oakland are Cantonese. These two groups are as different as any two groups can be and they are both considered Chinese! Diversity in the US is staggering especially among languages. Just in California alone: California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is just one state. If the entire country's numbers were given this number would be much much higher. If this isn't diversity then diversity simply doesn't exist.
I'm not saying diversity isn't there. Quite the opposite. In my OP, I actually considered American categories too broad (ie. What does "black" or "Asian" mean when it can span more than dozens and dozens of countries and cultures) and not nuanced enough to cover what I think should be the diversity of this country, which has been an immigrant nation for so long.
I felt that media sometimes overplays a few 3 or 4 categories over and over (white, black, Asian, Hispanic) like they are meaningful groups rather than vague and incoherent clusters, ignoring nuances that ethnicity is not race and that there can be many categories where racial ancestry and cultural inheritance aren't the same: eg. Japanese Peruvians, French-speaking Haitians etc.
In fact, I find it ironic that some other countries, even those with a shorter history of immigration and diversity than the US, have more emphasis on ethnicity (like British putting a separate Caribbean and African category on the census, unlike the US lumping all blacks together, or Canadians putting language as a factor in ethnicity before race) than the simple "white, black, Hispanic, Asian" boxes our media throws at us.
Like for instance, despite the fact that Britain has less of a black population than the United States (3% compared to closer to 13-14%), the UK manages to distinguish Caribbean blacks and African blacks on their census, which shows that at least ethnic diversity is somewhat taken into account, not just physical race or appearance. Or the fact that Canada has separate East, South and West Asian categories on their census while the American census has a single category "Asian", even though Asian immigration had been longer in the US than Canada.
In fact, if Americans have had diversity for a longer time and more generations, there should be even more, not less, nuance and understanding of multiple ethnic identities and complexities of language, culture, ancestry and customs that define peoples' group identities beyond just skin color or appearance.
I think people in general should have a more nuanced understanding of ethnicity and not conflate it to a handful of four or five boxes relating to skin color or continent of ancestry that fit on a form.
Race and ethnicity are not well understood in the US. Many people even use the two terms, along with nationality interchangeably not knowing these words are not synonyms. The US has always been race based, not ethnic based although in more recent times, that has begun to change a bit. Cajuns are now recognized as an ethnic group. Black Caribbeans still aren't but perhaps they should be.
Hispanic is one that can get you into trouble. Mexicans, this includes those many call Mexican-Americans, do not like the term Hispanic. This term lumps people together from the Spanish speaking world who often only have language in common but little else. Mexicans, both immigrants and US born prefer the term "Mexican". To them it isn't just a nationality. It identifies them culturally. Basically they use it like an ethnic term despite the fact that Mexican isn't recognized in the US as an ethnicity, perhaps one day it might.
I think it's kept this way largely because to break it down would make a bewilderingly long list. just from the two regions in California I've lived in, right of the top of my head I can name the following:
Native Americans:
Too many to name. Some are extinct.
This is just pulled out of the air for California only. It would be very frustrating trying to break this down for the entire country.
You forgot Indians and other South Asians under Asian. In California there are a fair number of communities even though it is not as well known (probably because there are more East Asians in the West) as in say, the New Jersey area and other parts of the Tri-State area.
Exactly, and countries like Canada and Australia are also pretty 'new' at 'diversity' anyway, so it's still a "big deal" for them, with plenty of "atta boys" along the way… simply because they've recently managed to cope with a large influx of "furiners" (who BTW have been a huge improvement on the typically bland Brit. cooking)! When in fact the history of the U.S. is almost entirely made up of one huge wave of immigrants after another…. "give us your poor and huddled masses" indeed!?!
And naturally bragging about 'diversity' is always lots easier when you have the luxury of way less population density than the U.S., or even most other countries. But start pushing 'em closer together, and let's hear about your vaunted "diversity" then!
Which reminds me of traveling around British Columbia shortly after 9/11, when even in 'cosmopolitan' Vancouver, the anti-muslim sentiment there was so common (and so nasty), that it woulda made any 'xenophobe' proud!
Great points. The US certainly has been at it longer than Canada or Australia and with the population the US has, it has a whole different dynamic. In Seattle, the Asian area is simply called the International district because every single east and southeast Asian ethnicity is found there. the city of Oakland renamed one of its streets International boulevard due to the large amount of diverse communities along its length. those are just two examples.
You forgot Indians and other South Asians under Asian. In California there are a fair number of communities even though it is not as well known (probably because there are more East Asians in the West) as in say, the New Jersey area and other parts of the Tri-State area.
In the SF Bay Area, you have fairly large Indian/Pakistani populations in San Mateo, Colma, Millbrae, etc as well as around San Jose.
As has been discussed here before, though, South Asians are generally thought of as their own group in the US rather than "Asians" - even if the census says otherwise, most people think of Asians as East/Southeast Asians.
In bigger cities and more diverse areas, there's more local awareness of ethnic groups; in LA, for example, there are distinctions between Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and Vietnamese, rather than them all just being "Asian;" this is because there are millions of Asians in the greater LA/OC/SGV/SFV sprawl, and they have distinct communities that have been established for decades if not over a century. In Boston, there are distinctions between someone who's African-American, and someone who's Afro-Caribbean, or from Ethiopia, Kenya, Somalia, etc, to the point that "black" basically means African-American and the other groups are distinct.
I'm not saying diversity isn't there. Quite the opposite. In my OP, I actually considered American categories too broad (ie. What does "black" or "Asian" mean when it can span more than dozens and dozens of countries and cultures) and not nuanced enough to cover what I think should be the diversity of this country, which has been an immigrant nation for so long.
I felt that media sometimes overplays a few 3 or 4 categories over and over (white, black, Asian, Hispanic) like they are meaningful groups rather than vague and incoherent clusters, ignoring nuances that ethnicity is not race and that there can be many categories where racial ancestry and cultural inheritance aren't the same: eg. Japanese Peruvians, French-speaking Haitians etc.
In fact, I find it ironic that some other countries, even those with a shorter history of immigration and diversity than the US, have more emphasis on ethnicity (like British putting a separate Caribbean and African category on the census, unlike the US lumping all blacks together, or Canadians putting language as a factor in ethnicity before race) than the simple "white, black, Hispanic, Asian" boxes our media throws at us.
Like for instance, despite the fact that Britain has less of a black population than the United States (3% compared to closer to 13-14%), the UK manages to distinguish Caribbean blacks and African blacks on their census, which shows that at least ethnic diversity is somewhat taken into account, not just physical race or appearance. Or the fact that Canada has separate East, South and West Asian categories on their census while the American census has a single category "Asian", even though Asian immigration had been longer in the US than Canada.
In fact, if Americans have had diversity for a longer time and more generations, there should be even more, not less, nuance and understanding of multiple ethnic identities and complexities of language, culture, ancestry and customs that define peoples' group identities beyond just skin color or appearance.
I think people in general should have a more nuanced understanding of ethnicity and not conflate it to a handful of four or five boxes relating to skin color or continent of ancestry that fit on a form.
I completely and totally agree with this post! Like I said before, maybe in another thread, maybe this one; Mexicans in particular often don't like being called Hispanic for this very reason. Whether native born or Immigrants they call themselves Mexican, not for a nationalistic reason as much as a cultural identity reason. they use it as if to say "we are ethnic Mexicans" even though the US does not have such a category. they fly their flag, not for the same patriotic/nationalistic reasons Americans do but it's a symbol of their culture and people.
You forgot Indians and other South Asians under Asian. In California there are a fair number of communities even though it is not as well known (probably because there are more East Asians in the West) as in say, the New Jersey area and other parts of the Tri-State area.
You're right, I was just pulling stuff out of the air while I was posting that. But yes we have a fair number of Indians and other South Asians.
In the SF Bay Area, you have fairly large Indian/Pakistani populations in San Mateo, Colma, Millbrae, etc as well as around San Jose.
As has been discussed here before, though, South Asians are generally thought of as their own group in the US rather than "Asians" - even if the census says otherwise, most people think of Asians as East/Southeast Asians.
In bigger cities and more diverse areas, there's more local awareness of ethnic groups; in LA, for example, there are distinctions between Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and Vietnamese, rather than them all just being "Asian;" this is because there are millions of Asians in the greater LA/OC/SGV/SFV sprawl, and they have distinct communities that have been established for decades if not over a century. In Boston, there are distinctions between someone who's African-American, and someone who's Afro-Caribbean, or from Ethiopia, Kenya, Somalia, etc, to the point that "black" basically means African-American and the other groups are distinct.
good points. Asian communities in LA and to some extent the rest of California are as distinct as the Irish, Italian or Jewish communities in places like New York but to some degree even more distinct since they maintain their languages more.
good points. Asian communities in LA and to some extent the rest of California are as distinct as the Irish, Italian or Jewish communities in places like New York but to some degree even more distinct since they maintain their languages more.
And many people in one Asian community harbor the same sort of stereotypes and prejudices of other Asian communities that non-Asians harbor about them...
And many people in one Asian community harbor the same sort of stereotypes and prejudices of other Asian communities that non-Asians harbor about them...
Oh yeah. Just get Chinese and Vietnamese started on one another.
other countries are not even discussing ethnic diversity. they are discussed mass raping in sweden since the turks came there. in france discussing lots of deportations and trying to fight off sharea law and the veil in the school.
but diversity discussions? not much.
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