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Of course it's possible, that's not the discussion. It's possible even in much of the U.S.
I'd argue that a car-free life is more possible in Europe than in the U.S., and it directly relates to the cost of living.
Unless you live in a major population center in the U.S., you likely won't have easy access to public transit. Even in Phoenix, the bus is unreasonable. It's faster to ride my bike from my old house in Mesa to downtown Scottsdale (about a 45 minute bike ride) versus taking the bus (over an hour). Small towns are worse, often having no transit at all. Small towns in Europe, traditionally, are smaller villages. A friend of mine lives an hour north of Frankfurt, in a village of 200 people. You can walk from one extent of town to the other in about 3 minutes. All of the development is centralized, and all the basic needs are covered. A community of 200 people in the U.S. would likely be spread over a few square miles of large farms, with the only shopping being a Wal-Mart 30 minutes away by car.
So no, car free life is NOT possible in a majority of the U.S., unless you lived in cities like NYC, San Francisco or D.C..
A buddy of mine who goes to Universität Salzburg is from a small village in the area. His family has only one car. His mom walks to work, and his dad commutes via bus to the next town over. They have the car, because it's a convenience they can afford, not because it's a necessity.
^^^ Many families or couples will own one smaller car...
Austrians like to walk and when I spend time in Vienna, I simply park my car... no need to drive.
Being a student in Austria has many advantages... even free public transportation passes when I was there...
My America neighbor is from Bavaria and her children have dual passports and for years the plan was for them to go to college in Germany where they have extensive family.
Didn't work out that way... one goes to Cal State East Bay and the other has a Stanford scholarship... so much for free German Education.
Where I lived in the Eifel/Mosel you could buy an ok older house quite cheap. My ex and I bought a really nice house on a hill with an amazing view of the Mosel and Hunsrück and a nice yard for 95,000€ and about 20,000 to fix it up.
A woman I know of bought a house in a village in the Odenwald about 20 minutes from Heidelberg also with a great view and big yard for 100,000€ and about 30,000 to renovate. She managed to buy the house as a single mother of three working in the cantina of a hospital and doing some housekeeping on the side.
Where I lived in the Eifel/Mosel you could buy an ok older house quite cheap. My ex and I bought a really nice house on a hill with an amazing view of the Mosel and Hunsrück and a nice yard for 95,000€ and about 20,000 to fix it up.
The Eifel is a relatively depressed rural area. Obviously it will be somewhat inexpensive. Very pretty but totally isolated. A U.S. equivalent would be some small, isolated town in West Virginia or Northern Michigan or something. I have family near Mayen, BTW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GER308
A woman I know of bought a house in a village in the Odenwald about 20 minutes from Heidelberg also with a great view and big yard for 100,000€ and about 30,000 to renovate. She managed to buy the house as a single mother of three working in the cantina of a hospital and doing some housekeeping on the side.
The median home price in the U.S. is around 180k USD. So your example shows a housing type that is no cheaper than typical housing in the U.S.
And that isn't even considering that 1. homes in the U.S. are considerably larger on average, 2. Germany doesn't really have mortgages in the U.S. context (people generally pay cash or have huge downpayments) and 3. there is no tax deduction for mortgage interest.
Both states have very large German populations
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 01-19-2015 at 01:08 PM..
The Eifel is a relatively depressed rural area. Obviously it will be somewhat inexpensive. Very pretty but totally isolated. A U.S. equivalent would be some small, isolated town in West Virginia or Northern Michigan or something. I have family near Mayen, BTW.
The median home price in the U.S. is around 180k USD. So your example shows a housing type that is no cheaper than typical housing in the U.S.
And that isn't even considering that 1. homes in the U.S. are considerably larger on average, 2. Germany doesn't really have mortgages in the U.S. context (people generally pay cash or have huge downpayments) and 3. there is no tax deduction for mortgage interest.
Ok but not really more. Coming from San Diego it sure seemed cheap. Really the area is not nearly as isolated as those places in the US. Trier in 25 Minutes, Koblenz in 40, Luxembourg City in less than an hour, even Cologne is not so far.
Our house was on the Mosel so a wine/tourist area. I worked as a graphic designer In Wittlich.
I know Mayen well, used to rock climb in Ettringen and my Ex comes from Ulman.
Everyone I know who bought a house has a mortgage, some even with no downpayment although they normally want 10%.
I seriously don't think you can make a fair comparison between Germany and Detroit, just because of the weather. Detroit is desolate, with high unemployment, large vacant areas, decay, poverty, crumbling infrastructure, etc. The immediate downtown area is having a bit of a gentrification / renaissance, but that's about it. If anything, Detroit reminds me of former Soviet block countries (and I'm sure you can buy cheap houses there). The housing stock in the U.S. also didn't compare to the German housing stock, in terms of quality and construction methods. The typical stick-built U.S.homes are nowhere near as efficient (in terms of heat / energy loss) than the average German house.
If anything, I would compare real estate of Germany with that of Colorado. Quality is better in Colorado, and it's a much more desirable area (desirability plays a huge role in housing costs -- Detroit is so cheap for a reason).
If you don't speak German, type a city name into the search field. "Kreis" means circle, so "Hannover (Kreis)" would be everything within a set diameter of Hannover. It'll give you an option to select distance. In the drop-down, select "Häuser kaufen" for houses for sale. Search, and then sort by "Preis -- niedrigster zuerst" (price -- cheapest first). 1 sq meter is approximately 10.75 sq ft, so multiplying by 10 gives you a rough estimate of size -- take it with a grain of salt though, some listings aren't accurately represented.
Also, just to note, Munich (München) is possibly the most expensive city in Germany, especially for real estate -- so searching in München (Kreis) really isn't a fair representation of prices in Germany. That'd be like saying houses are expensive in the U.S., after just looking at reality in San Francisco.
The English "luxury properties" website posted earlier is geared toward people buying vacation property overseas, also not very representative of the housing stock.
Yes, buying a house in Europe is going to be slightly more expensive than buying a house in the U.S. (and, in rural areas, or areas with little industry / employment in the U.S., houses are even cheaper), but keep in mind the location of the houses (access to major cities via pubic transit, distance to urban areas or industry) as well as the quality of the construction. You pay for what you get, and most U.S.homes are less accessible, and of cheaper quality.
Ok but not really more. Coming from San Diego it sure seemed cheap. Really the area is not nearly as isolated as those places in the US. Trier in 25 Minutes, Koblenz in 40, Luxembourg City in less than an hour, even Cologne is not so far.
San Diego is one of the most expensive parts of the U.S. The Eifel is one of the cheapest parts of Germany. It isn't really a fair comparison, at all.
It would be like comparing Munich or Vienna to rural Indiana or something. Not really reasonable.
I have family in two small villages to the west of Mayen. The villages are named Nachtsheim and Boos.
I seriously don't think you can make a fair comparison between Germany and Detroit, just because of the weather. Detroit is desolate, with high unemployment, large vacant areas, decay, poverty, crumbling infrastructure, etc.
The mistake you're making is conflating the city of Detroit with "Detroit".
The city of Detroit is, yes, very undesirable. But "Detroit" the metro area, is pretty typical in the U.S. The city of Detroit is only 10% of the metro area, so is pretty much irrelevant. Metro Detroit has a healthy economy, with tons of high pay engineering jobs for the auto industry. Tens of thousands of Europeans and Japanese work in the region for a few years, usually in technical roles. They live in beautiful suburbs, with huge homes, lakes, forests, and excellent schools.
There are actually many Germans living in Detroit because of the auto industry, and they get far more for their money than in Germany.
But the post referred to "Detroit", and the housing abundance. I agree, a few areas of metro Detroit are nice. I'd still say Germany more closely resembles either Colorado or the Pacific Northwest in terms of climate, geography, and housing market.
Edit: I'd wager Vancouver, B.C. would be an apt comparison to Munich, and Seattle and Portland would be fairly comparable to other metro areas in Germany.
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