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Appliances and electronics are cheaper here by now. When I moved back from the US 4 years ago I saw Samsung tv's that cost 700$ at Best Buy or Sears for around 400 euros at the local Media Markt here. The same for fridges and computers except Apple. Basically everything is cheaper here by now except a few things like fuel, Apple, some clothes like Levi's and fast food. The rents alone on the east or west coast are already more than what most Europeans pay for their total monthly expenses.
I wonder where Americans get the illusion they live in a cheap country . The US is the most expensive country in the world with the exception of maybe Canada or Australia.
Again.. try living in Switzerland or Sweden just for grins...
Yes, prices have come down on many fronts in Europe since unification... to say it is cheap... well, I have not seen it... again, how come a new BMW or Mercedes cost much more in Austria than it does in California?
Yes, prices have come down on many fronts in Europe since unification... to say it is cheap... well, I have not seen it... again, how come a new BMW or Mercedes cost much more in Austria than it does in California?
Again.. try living in Switzerland or Sweden just for grins...
Yes, prices have come down on many fronts in Europe since unification... to say it is cheap... well, I have not seen it... again, how come a new BMW or Mercedes cost much more in Austria than it does in California?
Europe is not cheap on a worldwide scale, but it is much cheaper than Northern America or Australia. I am not sure about the price of BMW's but I would call that a luxury problem unrelated to cost of living of necessary items like housing, groceries, education, or health care. Driving a used car is cheaper here in my experience.
I have been to the Bay Area for work and everything is very, very expensive there. Even much more expensive than Switzerland. They pay at least 4 - 5 times our price for the same house in the Bay Area. Groceries are like 3 - 5 times as expensive as over here.
Europe is not cheap on a worldwide scale, but it is much cheaper than Northern America or Australia. I am not sure about the price of BMW's but I would call that a luxury problem unrelated to cost of living of necessary items like housing, groceries, education, or health care. Driving a used car is cheaper here in my experience.
I have been to the Bay Area for work and everything is very, very expensive there. Even much more expensive than Switzerland. They pay at least 4 - 5 times our price for the same house in the Bay Area. Groceries are like 3 - 5 times as expensive as over here.
This is interesting in that my Swiss colleague just settled in the Napa Valley and bought a home... Napa Valley is not know for it's low cost and yet my friend said it much less expensive than Zurich where he and his family are from... even fine dining is much less expensive... not that I would know.
In 2002 I ordered Factory delivery on a new 325iT BMW in Munich... all of my colleagues commented that I must be doing very well... it had the wood trim, climate, automatic, etc... just the basic US model configuration.
The price I paid, including delivery to California after I was done using the car in Germany, would have only bought a Golf VW with similar equipment and no where close to a BMW... it made for lively discussions at the late night stammtisch on just how expensive Europe is compared to American.
Also, I had the standard export 325 gas engine and was told that few could afford that engine there because gas costs more, gets less mpg, the insurance costs more with such a "Big" engine and registration is more too... that is why diesel outsells gas.
On a side not... didn't everything in Switzerland just become 25%+ more expensive in one week with the Franc spike?
This is interesting in that my Swiss colleague just settled in the Napa Valley and bought a home... Napa Valley is not know for it's low cost and yet my friend said it much less expensive than Zurich where he and his family are from... even fine dining is much less expensive... not that I would know.
You can't really compare a financial hub like Zurich to a rural area like Napa Valley and conclude that the US is cheaper than Switzerland. When you compare cities like San Francisco, New York, or Boston on the coasts to densely populated areas in Europe, Europe is much cheaper. The rents alone are much more than what most Europeans spend for their total monthly expenses.
I agree with you new car prices are a rip-off in Europe but on the automotive forums I see Americans complaining 'regular' cars are around $30k these days. At least in Europe you can buy a small car like a Twingo or a Polo for around euro 10k, including sales tax. You can't even buy those in the US.
And total fuel expenses are on average actually lower here because we don't have this urban sprawl and drive smaller cars. There is a statistic on this and Europeans actually pay less for fuel than Americans despite the higher price per litre. I pay far less on car insurance over here than in the US.
Superb public transportation, pedestrian zones, urban planning that emphasizes the human over the automobile,
Not true
1. Most of Europe does not have superb public transportation. Its good in big cities, but in smaller cities you are dependent on having a car.
2. Pedestrian zones are not very common in Europe, just a few streets in major cities
3. Most Europeans have a car, and is dependent on having a car.
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low crime, high education of populace
1. It is a myth that Europe have a much lower crime rate. This myth comes from only looking at homicide rate, and ignoring all other forms of crime.
2. US is at number 12 in the world in 25-34 year olds having a tertiary degree, doing way better than countries such as Germany, Denmark and Austria. List of countries by 25
US also does better than many European countries in educational surveys.
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cosmopolitan outlook, more family-friendly culture, less general CNN-like hysteria in the media, greater freedom
None of these statement have any substance. Also, on what indicator does Europe have more family-friendly culture. In fact you will struggle in southern Europe to start a family due to the massive unemployment.
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and true democracy (one person=one vote)
First off not all European countries have a proportional system (e.g. UK, Sweden after dec 2014). Even in proportional systems it is not one person=one vote. For instance in Norway your vote is valued different based on where you live. Democracy is not only about having a proportional system. For instance Europe is famous for refusing and ignoring referendums.
In addition in Europe you got the EU, which is not really democratic. You can change what happens in the EU, but only by voting differently in local elections. What you vote in EU elections doesn't really matter, because most of the power is in the council. Even if it matters, most people do not know what their party stand for at EU level and vote exactly the same in the EU elections.
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And if you talk about taxes, Europe gets a bumb wrap compared to the United States (it borders on propaganda). Add up the value of universal health care, state-paid higher education, retraining and retirement benefits, vacation benefits, and the United States starts to look very expensive by comparison.
US is not that different, apart from health care. Many students in the US go to state colleges where the tuition is not very high. US got social security and I am not sure what you mean by retraining benefits. Vacation benefits is not given by the government, it is taken out of your salary.
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That's why Europe is cheap.
You didn't even address the most important issues.
1. Europe has a high unemployment rate, and low salaries if you are able to get a job.
2. Europe has very expensive housing, especially in the big cities
3. Europe has expensive cars and gasoline, and most Europeans need a car.
4. Goods and services are more expensive.
Sure, Europe sounds amazing for a progressive on a expat salary. But try to live like a local, and then you will realize that Europe is no utopia.
Exactly... Europe has high to very high taxes... even food at the market is taxed.
I host several each year from Austria, Germany and Switzerland... no one has ever said California is more expensive than home.
Try to buy BIO or organic products in Europe and try to buy it in NY. All prices in the supermarkets are marked together with tax. It is not like in the USA where all prices are marked without tax, and then you get total at the register. You know how much something costs immediately. Coming from Europe, this is very strange to me.
Difference can be told ONLY by someone who lived in both places. Not tourists who spend few days/weeks and are not aware of all the costs.
That being said, as someone who lived in both places I just can tell Europe is cheaper.
maybe you should mention the dutch taxes on new cars, that will make the americans faint
And their property taxes make Dutch people faint. Used cars are actually cheaper over here.
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SF is more than most major cities in the EU. But get out of SF and it's different.
Food is cheaper in the EU?
Groceries are much cheaper in the Europe, even in Britain they are cheaper. I really don't understand why people need to be in denial about this. Most things are literally 3 to 4 times as expensive. You can go to walmart.com and lidl.nl and see for yourself, both discounters. And it isn't just San Francisco, New York, Boston, Seattle, and many more places on the east or west coast are much more expensive than Europe in just about everything.
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. The US is the most expensive country in the world with the exception of maybe Canada or Australia.
