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NYC will often have the mostest of any emigrant nationality but that does not mean it has the biggest "feel" of the old country. It is probably too diverse and big to have the feel of any single country.
correct , for example , new York is the u.s city where the largest number of irish people have emigrated down the centuries but boston is without question a more irish city
I'm in my late 20s and agree that melbourne is heavily Asian now, you have been here 10 years you say? When I was a youngster in the late 80s/early 90s growing up in melbourne I could swear it felt like everyone was either Italian or greek, the Asians were sorta just lurking in the background, people of other European ethnicities were here but in much smaller numbers, and you hardly had any Indians at all. The Italians are hanging on a bit better because they have double the population of greeks in melbourne, and because we are on the other side of the world not as many greek Australians travel to Greece as greek Americans would.
But those are suburban areas in Long Island and New Jersey. What is 'Melbourne proper'? It's the statistical division that includes a vast area (a lot of it rural/non-residential) with about 4.4 million people. American cities are measured differently, and often include only the inner areas. For instance San Francisco has only about 750,000 in the official 'city', but the metropolitan area has about 4.5 million, same as Melbourne. New York has about 9 million in the 8 boroughs (from memory), but the greater NYC metro has about 20 million people, which would be the same as Melbourne.
Yeah the Greek presence isn't that obvious, even in formerly Greek areas. Are you of Greek ancestry yourself? Well there are still tavernas and stuff, but if you mean a nightclub that plays dance music or something than no, I don't know of any. Has there been much Greek migration to North America recently? That might make a difference. I do feel Melbourne's Greek populations are spread all throughout the suburbs, moreso than Italians
Also there are quite a few Greeks in some rural parts of Victoria (and indeed the rest of the country), who started market gardens, growing fruits on orchards, wine and olive oil, and various other agricultural activities. If anything the Greek Australian population is probably MORE rural and less urban-centric than those in the US.
I'm 29 myself, from Perth, and moved here in 2013 but first visited in 2002 and do recall it feeling more European on my first visit. I think it also depends where you grew up. Which area did you grow up? If you grew up in Coburg, it's very different to growing up in Boronia or Sandringham or something. That's the interesting thing about Melbourne, you can have a very different experience depending where you live as it has so many diverse neighbourhoods. I live in Footscray, which while known as the hub of the Vietnamese community in Victoria/Melbourne is getting more and more diverse, with a lot of Africans, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Malaysians among others. Very different feel to say Brunswick where I lived for awhile of course, and a world away from the suburb in Perth I grew up in.
As far as the US, NYC is better represented with Astoria. Although Chicago has a greektown on Halsted St., its rather small and the Greek residents have spread throughout suburbia. Toronto has a very nice greektown on Danforth Ave. Can't say about Australia as I have never been to. If I had to compare NYC vs Toronto, I would say Astoria's might be bigger while Toronto's prettier.
But those are suburban areas in Long Island and New Jersey. What is 'Melbourne proper'? It's the statistical division that includes a vast area (a lot of it rural/non-residential) with about 4.4 million people. American cities are measured differently, and often include only the inner areas. For instance San Francisco has only about 750,000 in the official 'city', but the metropolitan area has about 4.5 million, same as Melbourne. New York has about 9 million in the 8 boroughs (from memory), but the greater NYC metro has about 20 million people, which would be the same as Melbourne.
Yeah the Greek presence isn't that obvious, even in formerly Greek areas. Are you of Greek ancestry yourself? Well there are still tavernas and stuff, but if you mean a nightclub that plays dance music or something than no, I don't know of any. Has there been much Greek migration to North America recently? That might make a difference. I do feel Melbourne's Greek populations are spread all throughout the suburbs, moreso than Italians
Also there are quite a few Greeks in some rural parts of Victoria (and indeed the rest of the country), who started market gardens, growing fruits on orchards, wine and olive oil, and various other agricultural activities. If anything the Greek Australian population is probably MORE rural and less urban-centric than those in the US.
I'm 29 myself, from Perth, and moved here in 2013 but first visited in 2002 and do recall it feeling more European on my first visit. I think it also depends where you grew up. Which area did you grow up? If you grew up in Coburg, it's very different to growing up in Boronia or Sandringham or something. That's the interesting thing about Melbourne, you can have a very different experience depending where you live as it has so many diverse neighbourhoods. I live in Footscray, which while known as the hub of the Vietnamese community in Victoria/Melbourne is getting more and more diverse, with a lot of Africans, Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Malaysians among others. Very different feel to say Brunswick where I lived for awhile of course, and a world away from the suburb in Perth I grew up in.
I'm from Northcote, massive greek and Italian area in the 90s, area has gentrified a lot in the last 10 years, feels like every week some new hipster cafe opens and an old school greek or Italian business closes it doors. Melbourne has a decent selection of tavernas and souvlaki joints but the nightlife is definitely dead, and yes I'm greek. As far as New York goes I think greeks have fled to the suburbs of New Jersey and Long Island because it's probably easier to raise a family there and its a reminder of what Greece is most like outside Athens...don't think greeks enjoy living in an apartment building, I have 2 uncles that lived in Manhattan up until the 80s both have since moved to northern New Jersey and their kids followed.
As far as the US, NYC is better represented with Astoria. Although Chicago has a greektown on Halsted St., its rather small and the Greek residents have spread throughout suburbia. Toronto has a very nice greektown on Danforth Ave. Can't say about Australia as I have never been to. If I had to compare NYC vs Toronto, I would say Astoria's might be bigger while Toronto's prettier.
As far as I'm concerned though astoria in New York is the Mecca of greek culture, by far the largest greek populated neighbourhood outside of Greece, literally greek shops everywhere it's not one of those greektowns that's just a strip of shops, you can feel the influence wherever you are, it didn't matter where I was I'd always seem to talk walk past a greek cafe or grocery store, they even filmed a greek tv show there a few years ago. The place itself is diverse but in terms of it's greek offerings it's truly unmatched and I remember hearing greek being spoken around me constantly.
Chicago's makes me the most jealous though as they seem to have done a decent job of maintaining it despite the fact that greeks don't live there now, it's everything melbourne's original greek area should be now.
I'm from Northcote, massive greek and Italian area in the 90s, area has gentrified a lot in the last 10 years, feels like every week some new hipster cafe opens and an old school greek or Italian business closes it doors. Melbourne has a decent selection of tavernas and souvlaki joints but the nightlife is definitely dead, and yes I'm greek. As far as New York goes I think greeks have fled to the suburbs of New Jersey and Long Island because it's probably easier to raise a family there and its a reminder of what Greece is most like outside Athens...don't think greeks enjoy living in an apartment building, I have 2 uncles that lived in Manhattan up until the 80s both have since moved to northern New Jersey and their kids followed.
I went to Northcote for the first time just last week. I'd heard it was a sort of hipstery place now, it is a bit like Fitzroy. I find Brunswick more interesting. Sydney Road just goes on forever, too. Have you seen 'Head On' based on the novel 'Loaded'? Also Death in Brunswick from the 80s. Along with Wog Boy is a pretty good insight into Greek Australian life/culture in Melbourne.
Yes, but I mean it's no different to what's happened here. A lot of Greeks - like the newer generation who is more integrated - have moved out from places like Northcote to suburbs all over Melbourne. The same thing happened when Chinese in New York's Chinatown moved to Flushing and other parts of Queens, Brooklyn, northern Jersey.
My family was originally from Brunswick so I know the area very well, you can also add heartbreak kid to the list of greek themed movies filmed in Brunswick, in the 80s it was the suburb that had the most greeks so it was a no brainer to film those movies there. Sydney rd has changed a lot as well, went from euro vibe in the 80s to a more Arab vibe in the early 90s, hipsters have also largely taken over Sydney rd, not that it's bad or anything but I find it's become a lot more seedy at nights compared to the family orientated area it once was, obviously we had the tragic incident with Jill meagher a few years ago, anyone who has lived or spent a lot of time in Brunswick will never view the area the same way again after that. At least the coburg part of Sydney road still has it's strong middle eastern vibe, even the greek cake shops there are still around.
New York MSA 178,959
Greater Melbourne 154,244
Toronto CMA 96,430
Chicago 96,010
Thanks for that, always had the feeling ny had more overall, but I'm certain Melbourne would have more Greek speakers, can see toronto pulling well ahead of Chicago should crack the 100,000 mark by the next census. Add Sydney and that's your top 5 major Greek populated cities, honorable mentions to Montreal and Boston.
The most Greek city outside Greece? Thats easy. Any where along the west edge of the Turkish coast. That was historically Greek from ancient to Ottoman times.
BTW: Just because a North American city was a destination for a Greek diaspora, doesn't make it "more Greek"
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