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Old 03-19-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,364 posts, read 14,307,279 times
Reputation: 10083

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Wrong about the "divided" characterization of the USA.

If you look at reality, it shows that there are men, interests, arms, and propaganda. There is no reality of institutions, but only of men in power. Institutions, like government, only exist conceptually and condition behavior only insofar as the people can be convinced to believe in them.

What is left and right, in political terms, at any given moment is merely the propaganda that is used by different groups in order to convince people to give them their support in the mad scramble to gain control over resources. These terms, then, are nominal and relative, and have no real human value. They are an invention of the political lexicon of the Nineteenth Century, and they barely help us to understand the long-term political struggle. In fact, these terms may act only to confuse us, as is their intent … another one of those icons.


“ … There are no credible alternatives to the spoils system. Even the most concentrated and authoritative power will get screwed up around the struggle for the spoils … experience shows that it is a long-term reality, except for the blind, the imbeciles, and the naïve. Almost always those who make propaganda against the spoils system are nothing but aspiring dispensers of the spoils themselves. Once they gain power, they transform their efforts into the most callous struggle to get their share of the spoils too …”

Bettino Craxi
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,026,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
I'm not too sure about that UL. There were a lot of people outside immigrant communities not pleased with some aspects of the curriculum and felt the matter wasn't properly vetted. Of course this can't be 'proven' but there were a lot people from immigrant communities or younger vis mins from immigrant communities who probably had no real beef with it and weren't complaining/protesting. I think the main bone of contention with those who had issues with it, wasn't so much the content but the age at which that content was being disseminated.

.

I am not sure of the demographic breakdown of supporters and opponents, and obviously there is no shortage of people who are Canadian-born, Christian or even atheist who opposed the program.


In coverage of the protests that I saw, most of the people there seemed to be members of minorities (religious or otherwise).


Muslim community taking the lead in latest round of Ontario sex-education protests | National Post
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,026,310 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
One can only hope that migrants who choose Canada as a destination do so with the hopes of improving their lives in ways that are not limited by economic factors. I find that those who embrace their new country's values become the most tolerant.
I think this is what will probably happen but at this point we can't be 100% of which way the tide will turn in Canada.


Right now for example we have the leader of the third party in Canada's Parliament, the New Democratic Party, Jagmeet Singh, who was very wishy washy on the sex education question when he was in provincial politics in Ontario. I believe he's also said that devout Sikhs (who wear turbans) should be exempted from mandatory motorcycle helmet laws for religious reasons.


Recently he's been in the news dancing a bit around the question of Sikh independence (from India), terrorism and violence. He's attempted to distance himself from the nastier stuff but with very prudent language - and so far it hasn't put a lid on the questions in his direction about these issues.


Not all of this is related to socially conservative values, of course, but it does show how multiculturalism can lead to "old country" issues being imported into the "new country".


Mr. Singh BTW is born and raised in Canada. He speaks English with a standard Canadian accent and actually speaks pretty good French as well.


But obviously he is not even close to being divorced from the affairs of his parents' homeland. (Not saying he necesarily should or shouldn't be BTW.)


I'd say that at this point these and some other reasons make Mr. Singh very unlikely to ever become Prime Minister of Canada, but it does show the potential effects that multiculturalism could have on domestic politics.
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Old 03-19-2018, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,026,310 times
Reputation: 11650
I hate to hijack this thread, but it's kinda dead on here anyway...


This is an interesting article with an even more interesting poll in the middle.


Jagmeet Singh's Quebec problem - Macleans.ca


Here is an excerpt:


I lived in Quebec for five years and have written about its politics in instalments for nearly a quarter-century since, and I find this is one element of the debate over religion and politics that’s hardest for many non-Quebecers to grasp: suspicion of religion in politics is often a progressive impulse in Quebec politics.
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Old 03-19-2018, 01:12 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,773 posts, read 21,497,759 times
Reputation: 9263
The "divided" talk is some media nonsense, they just made up the term for a good talking point and to sell paranoia (get more views)

When in history have humans never been divided, we are non a large boring group of folks who were all programmed to think and believe the same way.
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Old 03-19-2018, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Starting a walkabout
2,691 posts, read 1,667,163 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Recently he's been in the news dancing a bit around the question of Sikh independence (from India), terrorism and violence. He's attempted to distance himself from the nastier stuff but with very prudent language - and so far it hasn't put a lid on the questions in his direction about these issues.


Mr. Singh BTW is born and raised in Canada. He speaks English with a standard Canadian accent and actually speaks pretty good French as well.


But obviously he is not even close to being divorced from the affairs of his parents' homeland. (Not saying he necesarily should or shouldn't be BTW.)


I'd say that at this point these and some other reasons make Mr. Singh very unlikely to ever become Prime Minister of Canada, but it does show the potential effects that multiculturalism could have on domestic politics.

The biggest problems with the attempt to break off part or all of Punjab into Khalistan ( along with a portion from Pakistan) is that the people who want it are not the majority of Sikhs living in Punjab. It is mainly the from the Sikhs in Canada and those living in Fresno and the surrounding areas in California ( not all Sikhs but a disproportionate number of them). They funnel the money into India to help fight a proxy war yet would not go and actually fight this war there. Cowards. And they are not even citizens of India. These are the real terrorists.

Countless innocent lives have been lost in Punjab thanks to these proxy fighters. Many Sikh and Hindu lives have been lost there. I sincerely wish that Canada keeps that idiot Jagmeet Singh and that he does not meddle in the internal affairs of another country. And I sincerely hope you don't elect him as PM of Canada.
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Old 03-19-2018, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,026,310 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamban View Post
The biggest problems with the attempt to break off part or all of Punjab into Khalistan ( along with a portion from Pakistan) is that the people who want it are not the majority of Sikhs living in Punjab. It is mainly the from the Sikhs in Canada and those living in Fresno and the surrounding areas in California ( not all Sikhs but a disproportionate number of them). They funnel the money into India to help fight a proxy war yet would not go and actually fight this war there. Cowards. And they are not even citizens of India. These are the real terrorists.

Countless innocent lives have been lost in Punjab thanks to these proxy fighters. Many Sikh and Hindu lives have been lost there. I sincerely wish that Canada keeps that idiot Jagmeet Singh and that he does not meddle in the internal affairs of another country. And I sincerely hope you don't elect him as PM of Canada.
I've read and also been told by a number of Sikhs themselves that Sikh nationalism and also traditional religious customs (turbans, beards, etc.) are probably more common among Sikhs living in Canada than among those living in India.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:09 PM
 
Location: France, Bordeaux
387 posts, read 380,149 times
Reputation: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I hate to hijack this thread, but it's kinda dead on here anyway...


This is an interesting article with an even more interesting poll in the middle.


Jagmeet Singh's Quebec problem - Macleans.ca


Here is an excerpt:


I lived in Quebec for five years and have written about its politics in instalments for nearly a quarter-century since, and I find this is one element of the debate over religion and politics that’s hardest for many non-Quebecers to grasp: suspicion of religion in politics is often a progressive impulse in Quebec politics.
Interesting article, decidedly the Quebecois are full of common sense.
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Old 03-19-2018, 07:58 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,387,426 times
Reputation: 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post


I'm really surprised about this re: San Diego.
San Diego is not like LA or San Francisco.
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Old 03-19-2018, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,882 posts, read 38,026,310 times
Reputation: 11650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bordeaux33 View Post
Interesting article, decidedly the Quebecois are full of common sense.
Paul Wells is one of the rare anglophone Canadian journalists who actually "gets" Quebec.
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