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In China, being a pedestrian is terrible. Traffic laws are ignored almost completely and drivers don't regard pedestrians as human. They will gladly plow straight through a zebra crosswalk with inches to spare between their car and pedestrians, including children, without any hesitation even if they don't have the light. Fatalities and injuries are common and many drivers will attempt to back over and kill a maimed pedestrian so that they only have to pay a flat lump sum compensation rather than for the rest of that person's lifetime.
Our trip to the US this summer was so refreshing... People stopped for pedestrians, waited for lights, gave the right of way, etc. All very rare occasions here in China.
I've been in Leipzig, Germany since May. I ride my bike, walk and use public transport to get around, so that gives me a good idea of what it feels like to get around without a car. In nearly 5 months, I have yet to have any negative interaction with a car driver, or have a car driver do something that made me feel insecure or threatened.
I obey all the rules of the road, as do the vast majority of cyclists here. If you don't, chances are you won't survive or will get a very stiff fine from the police. In the cities, the traffic lights for cyclists and pedestrians need to be obeyed because they are timed different than the traffic lights for car traffic or streetcars. Yes, there are special signals for streetcars! It is a beautiful thing to see how school age children are given extensive bicycle and pedestrian safety training, not just once, but one or more times every year.
Bicycles here are also set up for traffic safety. Most people fairly upright ride bikes with transportation in mind (not racing bikes or mountain bikes). Most bikes have fenders, reflectors, generator driven headlights & taillights and beefier tires made for a variety of rough street surfaces.
Several times a week, I take a train trip to a location outside the city with my bicycle (you can roll bikes on and off all the regional trains). Then I take a 30 to 50 mile bike trip to another location and take a train back to Leipzig. A lot of the bike riding is on a vast network of bike routes that use rural roads, city streets and sometimes separate bike-only paths. I have probably pedaled close to 2000 miles since May. I have not had any problems, and the amount of bike friendly infrastructure is fantastic. It has taken decades to get to this point, it does not happen fast or cheap. However, it has become a priority in local and state governments, and it has made a huge difference.
The comments from acajack about Quebec sound encouraging. Maybe I'll consider Quebec for my warm weather weather season escape next year!
I've been in Leipzig, Germany since May. I ride my bike, walk and use public transport to get around, so that gives me a good idea of what it feels like to get around without a car. In nearly 5 months, I have yet to have any negative interaction with a car driver, or have a car driver do something that made me feel insecure or threatened.
I obey all the rules of the road, as do the vast majority of cyclists here. If you don't, chances are you won't survive or will get a very stiff fine from the police. In the cities, the traffic lights for cyclists and pedestrians need to be obeyed because they are timed different than the traffic lights for car traffic or streetcars. Yes, there are special signals for streetcars! It is a beautiful thing to see how school age children are given extensive bicycle and pedestrian safety training, not just once, but one or more times every year.
Bicycles here are also set up for traffic safety. Most people fairly upright ride bikes with transportation in mind (not racing bikes or mountain bikes). Most bikes have fenders, reflectors, generator driven headlights & taillights and beefier tires made for a variety of rough street surfaces.
Several times a week, I take a train trip to a location outside the city with my bicycle (you can roll bikes on and off all the regional trains). Then I take a 30 to 50 mile bike trip to another location and take a train back to Leipzig. A lot of the bike riding is on a vast network of bike routes that use rural roads, city streets and sometimes separate bike-only paths. I have probably pedaled close to 2000 miles since May. I have not had any problems, and the amount of bike friendly infrastructure is fantastic. It has taken decades to get to this point, it does not happen fast or cheap. However, it has become a priority in local and state governments, and it has made a huge difference.
The comments from acajack about Quebec sound encouraging. Maybe I'll consider Quebec for my warm weather weather season escape next year!
Its interesting to hear that cyclists actually obey rules of the road in your part of Germany, as I know that they usually don't in much of the world. Apparently, while I haven't been to Netherlands it appears many traveler accounts the cyclists there won't observe any rule known to man nor stop for anything from fellow pedestrians to red lights maybe with the exception of those on rails such as trains and streetcars. Local custom dictates that it takes a lot more physical effort to restart a bicycle vs some one on foot or motor vehicle thus bicycles are given a pass. Though I often hear that true Germans would refrain from jaywalking at even 2am in the morning i.e they would still walk over to the traffic light and wait for the walk man to be green. I don't know if this is still true or not at 2019. Though if its still true I would bet Germans riding bicycles will be no different. Also is it true that much of Germany doesn't have bicycle helmet laws?
Though just curious what about junctions? it seems this is often a grey area in most areas" I know that in much of NA officially all intersections/crossroads contain crosswalks on all four corners whether its marked as such or not. Here is a informative video “Every Corner is A Crosswalk”—See the excellent video with this title to better understand the breadth of ORS 811.028(many other states/provinces have similar provisions). Though in practice drivers would give way to those who are brave enough to take it. However usually those facing a stop sign or exiting a driveway would allow pedestrians to cross first, turning traffic would also give way if it appears the pedestrian is destined to go in front of the driver. Courteous drivers would automatically give way to approaching foot/bike traffic in both situations. Its rare though for drivers on the main road, the road without stop signs and have priority over the side road traffic, to automatically give way unless traffic is already moving really slowly.
I noticed though in some other English speaking countries the Stop line is often drawn ahead of the sidewalk crossing, it appears road planners don't seem to encourage cars to give way to peds/cyclists on a junction(only other vehicles on the main street) despite the fact that they do have priority.
It appears in German traffic codes that turning traffic must give way to non turning traffic including those on foot/bike/mobility device crossing an intersection signalized or not that is unless they have a protected turning arrow signal. and peds including children waiting at an junction for others to catch up to might cause a traffic jam this way, whereas in other countries the drivers turning just goes ahead. However its appears murky what are the duties of non turning traffic when they encounter non motorized road users absent traffic lights especially on a priority to the right intersection. I would believe that drivers would not be happy if a nonmotorized road user is going to make them lose their turn if they are in a position where they otherwise have priority over other motor vehicles at the intersection.
Driver pedestrian interactions are best measured in what would a driver/pedestrian do in a grey area absent of road rules where they encounter each other and need to cross each other's path? I.e in a gas station, rest stop, pedestrian plaza, junction without lights, or any type of sidewalk interruption, tour bus loading dock, shopping center etc.
In some countries/parts of the world drivers would be nice to pedestrians whenever they can, on others they would only give way if they would risk a ticket/fine not to but would bully pedestrians wherever they can get away with it, than there is the far east and China where lights and lines on the road are mere decorations and motorists seem to do whatever they want with pedestrians short of physically contacting and injuring them.
For turning traffic to me its obviously common sense to give way to non turning traffic whether by vehicle or not. As when you turn the back of your vehicle would follow a shorter path than the front which can be problematic if you are driving a long vehicle, that shorter path may inadvertently catch a pedestrian, bike, scooter, or mobility device. Almost caught a few times by bus drivers in China who are oblivious of this.
Also your turning comes as a surprise for those on the sidewalk proceeding straight as they would assume you are proceeding straight and you are out of their field of vision, while you could see the intentions of those on the sidewalks long before you start turning since you are slowing down anyways.
Though infrastructure is important as well. For example here is an example of what not to do as a planner moderntransit.org/expy/st.html Santa Clara county in California seems to be breaking every rule including state laws protecting vulnerable road users in planning their expanded road system.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 09-13-2019 at 05:37 AM..
Its interesting to hear that cyclists actually obey rules of the road in your part of Germany, as I know that they usually don't in much of the world..
I definitely don't follow all of the rules of the road when cycling and neither do most cyclists here.
At least not when there is no one else around. I often go right through stop signs and red lights, and go down one-way streets the wrong way.
But if there are motorists or pedestrians around I am always respectful of their priority, and often give way with hand signals or verbally even if it's my priority.
-interestingly North Americans generally have a high degree of personal space and would apologize if they have to violate it, thus drivers should never threaten a pedestrian that they feel the need to jump out of the way or make them by driving near a meter of them at speeds higher than 20 kilometers an hours
Drivers from Asia/china, Turkey, Israel, and even Latin countries take notice. As there its common for cars trucks and buses to bully pedestrians by driving centimeters of them at high speeds. But do this in North America you might incite pedestrian road rage.
I laughed when I read the above. What you posted above is true, at least where I live, and while the vast majority of people on the roads here know the rules of the roads and are respectful of each others' space and rights of way, it is not unusual for a pedestrian to attack or at the very least loudly berate and threaten a vehicle or its driver if the pedestrian's right of way has been violated. I've witnessed it happen a few times over the years, it's just not often that such an incident gets captured on camera and submitted online.
The following incident happened last January in Vancouver and somebody else's dashcam captured it all and that person submitted it online, and it made the news. Watch the video posted in this article and see what the pedestrian who had the right of way in the crosswalk and nearly got run down did to the offending car that got too close to him. The driver of this car was a woman (and as it later was revealed she was a new driver in this country) so she got off lightly in reaction from the pedestrian, as I've seen other cars take a much worse beating and damage than what happened here: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/pede...vancouver-2019
Its interesting to hear that cyclists actually obey rules of the road in your part of Germany, as I know that they usually don't in much of the world.
Also is it true that much of Germany doesn't have bicycle helmet laws?
It appears in German traffic codes that turning traffic must give way to non turning traffic including those on foot/bike/mobility device crossing an intersection signalized or not that is unless they have a protected turning arrow signal. and peds including children waiting at an junction for others to catch up to might cause a traffic jam this way, whereas in other countries the drivers turning just goes ahead. However its appears murky what are the duties of non turning traffic when they encounter non motorized road users absent traffic lights especially on a priority to the right intersection. I would believe that drivers would not be happy if a nonmotorized road user is going to make them lose their turn if they are in a position where they otherwise have priority over other motor vehicles at the intersection.
Driver pedestrian interactions are best measured in what would a driver/pedestrian do in a grey area absent of road rules where they encounter each other and need to cross each other's path? I.e in a gas station, rest stop, pedestrian plaza, junction without lights, or any type of sidewalk interruption, tour bus loading dock, shopping center etc.
I snipped a few questions from above. No, no helmet laws in Germany for adults. Most people riding a bike to or from work or school are not wearing helmets and are wearing regular street clothes. Women might be wearing a dress or skirt in summer, and men anything from a suit to coveralls or other work clothes. It is rare to see someone riding in the city wearing lycra cycling clothes or clip in bike pedals. Maybe 15-20 percent use a helmet. Many people that carry their kids on a regular bike with kiddie seat or a larger cargo bike put helmets on their kids.
The traffic lights at intersections control motor vehicles, streetcars, bicycles and pedestrians at different intervals. I notice here in Leipzig, when waiting at a red light, the lights turn in this order. First, streetlights get a green to proceed, and they are gone in a few seconds. Then pedestrians and bicycles get a green to proceed. 15 seconds later, cars get a green to proceed. If there is a car that wants to turn right, they must wait until all peds and bikes clear the intersection crossing. The pedestrian & bike signals will turn red pretty fast, meaning that if you are not ready to cross you will get a red light in 15 seconds. You have to pay attention and move when the light goes green. That clears the intersection for cars. The cars get a longer green than bikes and peds, to get through the signal and make turns.
Note, the complex signaling system only works well if everybody obeys it. It is extremely risky if a pedestrian or cyclist does not stop for their red and wait for their green, at least during any time when there is traffic on the road. Aside from peak traffic rush hours, it is very easy to get from one part of the city to another on a bike. This is a city of almost 700K residents.
At other junctions not controlled by lights, the straight ahead traffic, bikes or peds have the right of way. People turning into a driveway or parking lot, or exiting those places, must wait for peds and bikes to go past those points. I have never seen a car challenge me at this, and in fact, cars will not like it if a bike or ped stops to yield to them, because they are not expecting that! I still use my helmet rear view mirror to make sure nobody is turning when I approach these uncontrolled turn places, because you never know, somebody might not be paying enough attention.
On narrow roads where only one car or bike can pass at a time, I am generous to yield to cars or other vehicles. I will often pull over and let the larger vehicle go by. On narrow rural farm roads, the rule is always get far off the road onto the side if a farm vehicle is approaching. They are often hauling trailers and odd heavy loads, and always have the right of way there.
I live in downtown Vancouver, so a lot of pedestrians, cars and bikes. Your question is about pedestrians and cars, so I'll stick to that.
Mostly it's good. Most cars stop when you are at a crosswalk. There are, of course, some drivers who seem clueless. You, as a pedestrian, may have the go signal to cross, but I always check to see if some idiot is trying to turn in a milli-second before people start crossing. Grrrr.
Pedestrians, again mostly good, but some are under the incorrect assumption that they have the right of way over a car in all situations and act that way. It's not true. Knowing the city as well as I do, there are certain streets where I expect to see people jaywalking, and drive slower because of that.
My favourite pet peeve, is again at a crosswalk. I've seen this as a pedestrian and as a driver. People are crossing, you want to turn right, but you are of course stopped waiting for it to be safe to turn, but some fool behind you is honking for you to turn.
I often want to get out of my car, and ask them if they would prefer to run over the people crossing, since I made my quota last week.
Today I crossed the road at a pedestrian sign in my neighborhood and a car arriving at around 60 km/h had to stop suddenly to let me pass. The law says the pedestrian is right, but the driver still insulted me and said next time he would hit me with his car, probably because he thought I should have stopped and left him pass.
It's not the first time it happens to me, it just goes to show how much drivers are kings in this country.
I moved to Vancouver last month, and I’ve found that most drivers stop at crosswalks. You do get the occasional absent-minded driver who just speeds through, or someone who sneaks in a turn just after the light turns red, so you do need to be at least a little mindful. Still, I do see a few jaywalkers here and there (I’m ashamed to say I’ve done it once or twice too when I was running late). Overall though, I’d say the people here are quite civil, polite, and orderly so far.
Back in my small town (US), cars usually wouldn’t stop at crosswalks. It was so car-centric that being a pedestrian almost felt like a crime lol.
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