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While you can only title a vehicle in one, you can register/license a vehicle in more than one state at a time.
I had to do that when I was in college but working in a different state the I was a resident of. EH mentions having had several plates at the same time when he was working construction.
Yup. I had one title and 3 sets of license plates with registration for each.
When my daughter was young we lived in a town where we registered kids' bicycles... but this was mainly because so many were stolen, and I don't recall that we had to pay a fee for the metal plate that was attached to her bike.
While you can only title a vehicle in one, you can register/license a vehicle in more than one state at a time.
I had to do that when I was in college but working in a different state the I was a resident of. EH mentions having had several plates at the same time when he was working construction.
Interesting. I didn't know that.
But, for me, who lives a year at a time away from home, I never change registration from my home state. That would just add to my troubles and cost. So far, nobody has balked. If a cop asks why my car isn't registered where it is garaged. I just inform them that I have four cars and rotate them monthly.
But, for me, who lives a year at a time away from home, I never change registration from my home state. That would just add to my troubles and cost. So far, nobody has balked. If a cop asks why my car isn't registered where it is garaged. I just inform them that I have four cars and rotate them monthly.
You don't mention the state(s) that are involved in this. Their car registration laws may be different than Wyoming ... because Wyoming specifies that if you are gainfully employed here, your vehicle is to be registered/licensed here. And if you're rotating 4 cars into the state, you get to license all 4.
I know that Colorado requires the same thing ... and I encountered that many years ago while a full-time college student in CO with a part-time job in a college town where there were lots of out-of-state license plates on the cars. A Boulder cop spotted my car parked in a shopping center for a couple of weeks and left me a ticket on the windshield for not having CO plates on the car; the burden was then on me to prove that I didn't qualify for CO plates. Since I was receiving a CO paycheck at the time, I was required to get that 2nd license plate.
Your comment that you live a year at a time away from home, however, raises an interesting situation, assuming you are not military or consular corps ... how do you live a year at a time away from home in another state without that becoming your primary residence? In some states, 6 months and a day continuous residency automatically makes that your primary residence for the purposes of voting, taxes, etc. ... even if you aren't employed in that state. With the revenue stream being aggressively pursued by the states these days, any opportunity to tax you as a resident is taken very seriously by the respective states ... especially when it comes to income taxes and sales taxes; given the national level reporting of payrolls & deductions, the states have a huge database to mine to find the folk evading owed taxes.
As well, how do you get car insurance to comply with the state in which you're actually living as a primary residence; ie, purchase coverage in what you assert is your "home" state but the car and your residency appear to really be in another? I appreciate that there are a lot of conflicting laws in all this which can create "situations" of ambiguity, but I forsee a minor issue becoming a big problem when a situation presents where you have a responsibility ... such as an injury traffic accident where your insurance may be needed to cover somebody else. Insurance that is obtained under false pretenses can deny coverage when the facts come to light ... and insurance companies aren't push-overs when it comes to paying out unwarranted claims these days.
I'd note that many states confer a "presumption of residency" status upon a person maintaining a residence for personal use (ie, renting or owning a place to live) within the state for a certain amount of time ... so even a retiree without an earned income in the state is deemed to be a resident. With an earned income in the state, then it's official. Other ways that a person can be qualified by the state as a resident ... accepting any state public assistance benefits, applying for a resident hunting/fishing license, getting in-state tuition rates.
You don't mention the state(s) that are involved in this. Their car registration laws may be different than Wyoming ... because Wyoming specifies that if you are gainfully employed here, your vehicle is to be registered/licensed here. And if you're rotating 4 cars into the state, you get to license all 4..
No, I am not speaking of WY... But if that truly is the law, It won't happen. Not for me anyway, I'd rather go elsewhere. Thanks
For taxing purposes in all of the states I have been in, your primary residence is defined by:
Where you have lived the past x years
Where your primary home
Where you vote
Where you "Intend" to return after the job
Where your vehicles are registered
... and may other similar questions. It is not always hard and fast. If I have been in violation all these 20+ years, so be it - that does not concern me.
But I am curious. If you lived on the border of two states, lived and garaged in one, but worked and garaged in the other, you still believe it requires two registrations?
As for insurance. I was once in an accident in another state - no consequences. And I cannot tell you how many times I have had my windshields replaced in multiple states. (In fact, I am waiting now for the glassman to arrive.) No consequence.
It's been the same for everyone I have ever known who also travels for a living as I do. When doing my taxes, I file as part year or non resident, State doesn't seem to care then either.
Not a lawyer and I don't know the answers but it may have to do with the fact that I do not "move." My home remains in my Home State, and I pick up temporary diggs in another state.
Last edited by blktoptrvl; 03-08-2014 at 08:42 AM..
But I am curious. If you lived on the border of two states, lived and garaged in one, but worked and garaged in the other, you still believe it requires two registrations?
It's been the same for everyone I have ever known who also travels for a living as I do. When doing my taxes, I file as part year or non resident, State doesn't seem to care then either.
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I do happen to live on the border of two states, and I own/maintain residences in both states. I derive income in both, so I have to pay income tax in the one state that does have a personal income tax ... although only on the income earned in that state.
The defining factor on residency is that I've declared in the one state, am registered to vote here, and otherwise conduct all of my tax and legal affairs based here.
If I kept a car in Colorado for my use there, I'd register and license it at one of my Colorado addresses. I have done so in the past, keeping it at an airstrip so when I flew in, I had local ground transport. Since my CO income is now not earned income, I'm not required to license my WY plated vehicles there when I visit.
It is not uncommon for folk who live/work in the border areas of WY and adajcent states to have dual license plates on their vehicles, especially seen on farm vehicles. When I bought my ranch here, I looked at a farm/ranch in the Albin area which had deeded lands into NE. The seller had license plates for both states on several of his vehicles.
But you've covered a very significant aspect here in your taxes ... that you do file part year or non-resident taxes in the states that you've been living in. That's the key issue for most states, capturing your earned income tax liability within their border, and it also clarifies that you're not intending or presumed to be a resident.
Just as an FYI, and because I deal with it every day in my primary job, there are THOUSANDS of businesses that register in Montana, and the vehicles are owned by the corporation or LLC, and are licensed in the state of jurisdiction for the company, which as a Montana domestic company, means Montana.
Because Montana does not require the principal business address to be in Montana, and does not require the officers/directors or member/managers to live in Montana, and because it only costs $70 to organize a business in Montana and the annual reports are only $15 a year, it is MUCH cheaper to maintain a business in Montana for years than the one time cost of the sales taxes in another state.
It is legal, and the same situation exists in Delaware and Nevada where companies register to avoid overwhelming taxes in their local state, so they incorporate in one of the low tax states, and register in their home state as a foreign company.
For individuals, they can be a single member LLC or only have one person serving as chair of the board/officer/shareholder, and maintain business as active.
It is one of the legal loopholes that exist that people use to minimize how much money is taken from them each year.
I see a lot of Wyoming businesses register in Montana that may be established businesses in Wyoming, qualifying in Montana so they can license their vehicles "for use in Montana", when about the only business they do is driving to Billings to go shopping.
If you have people going to all the trouble of setting up a company and abiding by all the laws, rules and filings necessary to maintain that business just to avoid the taxes, there may be a problem with how the local taxes are set up to cause people to go to such extremes to avoid them.
As for me, I live in Montana, own land in 3 different counties, my vehicles are licensed in the county that charges the least.
And no, I don't have kids, but pay property taxes in all 3 counties, so I save my money where I can.
Just as an FYI, and because I deal with it every day in my primary job, there are THOUSANDS of businesses that register in Montana, and the vehicles are owned by the corporation or LLC, and are licensed in the state of jurisdiction for the company, which as a Montana domestic company, means Montana.
Because Montana does not require the principal business address to be in Montana, and does not require the officers/directors or member/managers to live in Montana, and because it only costs $70 to organize a business in Montana and the annual reports are only $15 a year, it is MUCH cheaper to maintain a business in Montana for years than the one time cost of the sales taxes in another state.
It is legal, and the same situation exists in Delaware and Nevada where companies register to avoid overwhelming taxes in their local state, so they incorporate in one of the low tax states, and register in their home state as a foreign company.
For individuals, they can be a single member LLC or only have one person serving as chair of the board/officer/shareholder, and maintain business as active.
It is one of the legal loopholes that exist that people use to minimize how much money is taken from them each year.
I see a lot of Wyoming businesses register in Montana that may be established businesses in Wyoming, qualifying in Montana so they can license their vehicles "for use in Montana", when about the only business they do is driving to Billings to go shopping.
If you have people going to all the trouble of setting up a company and abiding by all the laws, rules and filings necessary to maintain that business just to avoid the taxes, there may be a problem with how the local taxes are set up to cause people to go to such extremes to avoid them.
As for me, I live in Montana, own land in 3 different counties, my vehicles are licensed in the county that charges the least.
And no, I don't have kids, but pay property taxes in all 3 counties, so I save my money where I can.
a couple of observations:
1) yes, it is Legal in MONTANA to license the vehicle to the corporate address. BUT it is NOT LEGAL in Wyoming to principally keep and operate a vehicle here without registering it here.
All you've done is outline how a lot of folk skirt the vehicle licensing laws of Wyoming (and other states, too). Lax law enforcement is not, IMO, a justification to ignore the applicable laws. This isn't even a "loophole", it's flat out avoiding the vehicle licensing laws of the state where the vehicle is being operated.
2) I'll bet that MT requires you to license your vehicles in the counties where they are domiciled.
Similar to CO, folk used to pick and choose the county where their taxable liability was the least; ie, folk in Denver would pay sales taxes and license fees for their vehicles from their condo address in the lower tax rate mountain areas. Denver finally started getting aggressive about this because it was clearly a tax avoidance scheme that wasn't legal. Denver PD used to keep an eye out for plates from out of the county areas being parked at business addresses ... which is how they caught up with a lot of folk.
Getting away with it doesn't make it legal.
3) A business listing their corporate address out of state gives up their WY BID preference advantage for public works projects. That can be the difference for a business being able to get a project award.
4) "If you have people going to all the trouble of setting up a company and abiding by all the laws, rules and filings necessary to maintain that business just to avoid the taxes, there may be a problem with how the local taxes are set up to cause people to go to such extremes to avoid them."
Agreed, not paying taxes as a matter of "principle", if not financial necessity ... has got to be as old a motivation as civilization has existed. Where some states charters makes it easy and inexpensive to find ways to avoid local taxes in other states, the opportunities become all the more tempting to do so.
I'm not suggesting that every tax is a good tax put to society's mutually beneficial ends. OTOH, not paying taxes has consequences which I don't think are beneficial ... and it's hypocritical on the part of some to aggressively avoid their legal tax burden while still enjoying the benefits that that taxes paid by others provide.
On a principle'd basis, the concepts extend to so many aspects of our regulated lives these days. For example, some folk on this forum say that raising the speed limit in WY to 80 mph isn't a good thing to do. Yet I observe folk driving that speed (and more) all the time, getting away with it now in lower posted speed zones. Perhaps, as a concept ... if the speeding laws had more adverse consequences and enforcement, folk might observe them. My bet is that few who don't go 80 mph now will start driving 80 mph if it became legal ... and most of the ones who now drive 80 mph will continue to do so. From what I've seen, folk tend to drive a "natural" speed within their comfort zone on a highway, which is how speed limits were set on many roads; ie, the prevailing speed driven on the road became the speed limit, even if it was higher than the original posted speed set by other parameters.
1) yes, it is Legal in MONTANA to license the vehicle to the corporate address. BUT it is NOT LEGAL in Wyoming to principally keep and operate a vehicle here without registering it here.
Have to tell you that the assets of a company legally registered in the state of jurisdiction of the company may operate in other states because those states have to recognize that the vehicle is operating under the laws of the state that the company has existence in and is being used as an asset of the company by an authorized person in pursuance of that business.
All you've done is outline how a lot of folk skirt the vehicle licensing laws of Wyoming (and other states, too). Lax law enforcement is not, IMO, a justification to ignore the applicable laws. This isn't even a "loophole", it's flat out avoiding the vehicle licensing laws of the state where the vehicle is being operated.
Yep
2) I'll bet that MT requires you to license your vehicles in the counties where they are domiciled.
Nope, you have to have a legal residence with address there and pay property taxes in that county. As long as you meet those requirements, it doesn't matter where you spend most of your time if you have to live in another town for work purposes.
Similar to CO, folk used to pick and choose the county where their taxable liability was the least; ie, folk in Denver would pay sales taxes and license fees for their vehicles from their condo address in the lower tax rate mountain areas. Denver finally started getting aggressive about this because it was clearly a tax avoidance scheme that wasn't legal. Denver PD used to keep an eye out for plates from out of the county areas being parked at business addresses ... which is how they caught up with a lot of folk.
Getting away with it doesn't make it legal.
The only time anyone ever even asked me about it was the bank when I took out a loan on a vehicle in one county for a truck licensed in another.
3) A business listing their corporate address out of state gives up their WY BID preference advantage for public works projects. That can be the difference for a business being able to get a project award.
Yeah, but if the company is qualified in Montana and has licensed the vehicle for business purposes in Montana.....
4) "If you have people going to all the trouble of setting up a company and abiding by all the laws, rules and filings necessary to maintain that business just to avoid the taxes, there may be a problem with how the local taxes are set up to cause people to go to such extremes to avoid them."
Agreed, not paying taxes as a matter of "principle", if not financial necessity ... has got to be as old a motivation as civilization has existed. Where some states charters makes it easy an inexpensive to find ways to avoid local taxes in other states, the opportunities become all the more tempting to do so.
I'm not suggesting that every tax is a good tax put to society's mutually beneficial ends. OTOH, not paying taxes has consequences which I don't think are beneficial ... and it's hypocritical on the part of some to aggressively avoid their legal tax burden while still enjoying the benefits that that taxes paid by others provide.
Your opinion, just as others see regressive and punitive taxes with no apparent benefit to themselves or their state but simply as tools to punish individuals for being successful in what they do as being just as onerous.
I am not debating the positives vs. negatives of taxes, (although I tend to fall on the "they are more negative" side), I am simply stating that legal avenues exist to avoid punitive taxes, and as long as there are, people will take advantage of them.
"Have to tell you that the assets of a company legally registered in the state of jurisdiction of the company may operate in other states because those states have to recognize that the vehicle is operating under the laws of the state that the company has existence in and is being used as an asset of the company by an authorized person in pursuance of that business."
Sorry, but you don't know the vehicle licensing laws of WY. They are very specific that a vehicle operated here for more than a minimum amount of time must obtain a WY registration/license ... no matter where the corp/company has their legal base of operations/corp on file. It could be in MT, NV, or any other state ... but operating vehicles in WY has them fall under the state statutes of WY for licensing. You'll see this to be more prevalent in commercial vehicles operating under pro-rata license plates, such as you see for the semi's heading over the highways.
Hence folk like me and EH, in compliance with the statutes, licensed vehicles in multiple states at the same time.
You also apparently don't know what the BID preference in WY is for WY contractors on public works projects. It is a 5% premium available ONLY to WY based contractors; ie, your BID is considered to be 5% less than your BID. For example, if two contractors come in at the same price point, the WY contractor has the low BID by 5% less. Incrementally, this 5% preference can be the difference between getting an award or not. When you're dealing in public works projects, 5% can be a big edge. I've seen a lot of projects through the years where the percentage spread between the group of competitive bidders wasn't more than 2-3%. You cannot claim the BID preference with a corporation filed in MT doing business in WY, the specific intent is to promote the competitiveness of WY based companies.
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