Cheap land in Wyoming - why? (Cheyenne: 2014, lease, roughest)

[RomaniGypsy]

I look on land-for-sale sites of all types and find that there are large, cheap plots available in states like Wyoming. It's desert land, but my questions are:

1) Is it impossible to make the land arable by drilling a well and irrigating?

2) Is it impossible to build on land like this?

3) Assuming there is a private right-of-way and the parcel is not landlocked, what other reasons are there for it being so cheap if it can be irrigated and a dwelling can be built upon it?

[jody_wy]

it sold on contract , once the people actually see it they walk away from what they paid... and it gets sold again... irrigated land brings a lot more per acre
as to drilling a well that be it or miss, then if no electricity you need propane or diesel to pump water for very poor ground.
Most of it is in 60-100 acre animal unit country... meaning you need a 100 acres to run a cow for six months and a cow calf for six more...

[RomaniGypsy]

Originally Posted by jody_wy

it sold on contract , once the people actually see it they walk away from what they paid... and it gets sold again... irrigated land brings a lot more per acre
as to drilling a well that be it or miss, then if no electricity you need propane or diesel to pump water for very poor ground.
Most of it is in 60-100 acre animal unit country... meaning you need a 100 acres to run a cow for six months and a cow calf for six more...

I've been trying to figure this out. If you own land in one of the arid western states, can you just drill a well and pump water? I've read that water rights are weird out there and I haven't gotten any helpful information yet on what "prior appropriation" means for water rights.

[Brian_M]

You could, but you would spend FAR more money than if you bought land that had water/better soil. It's a terrible deal from strictly a financial standpoint (if you want to Use the land).

[Ltdumbear]

I have worked for a handful of ranchers & trophy-property owners who openly admitted thier wells (for barely drinkable water) were 3000 ft deep (or more) to the 'Madison Layer'...and that almost certainly comes at a very high price.

[Rescue3]

All of the above, plus the weather. Some of that high scrubland is called 'high' because it can be at 8,000 feet. There is a world of difference between living at 1-2,000 feet and living at 7-8,000 feet. Less growth, more scrub, less water, more wind (a LOT more wind) and harsher winters.

By its constitution, the state owns all the water in Wyoming. You can apply for water rights on your land, but it is up to someone else as to whether you get it. (A ditch company owns mine...) Wells are dug at a certain number of dollars per foot. Last number I heard around here was about $25 per foot, but it will vary depending upon where you are considering. When you have to go 2-3,000 feet to hit brackish water, that gets rather expensive. Then you have to consider whether you want to irrigate with that water, drink that water, or raise livestock with that water - or all three. And if you irrigate, what are you going to grow?

There is a reason that land is so cheap. It's about worthless. Run, don't walk, to the nearest exit.

[jody_wy]

"prior appropriation" I have some territorial water rights 1880s, some 19teens, 1957 and 1876. Neighbor put a pump in the creek above me only has a junior water right 2014. I get to irrigate first then if there water left he can. If we go on turns he gets water like for 48 hours I get it for 14 days and my turn is first.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

I look on land-for-sale sites of all types and find that there are large, cheap plots available in states like Wyoming. It's desert land, but my questions are:

1) Is it impossible to make the land arable by drilling a well and irrigating?

for most of the "cheap plots" in Wyoming, you'll not find water readily accessible. Understand that water use is subject to a state engineer issued permit for a specific purpose; ie, a "residential" permit will likely be granted if you apply for it but it is limited to a maximum of 25 gpm (and you're unlikely to get but a minute fraction of that from a well in many of those cheap land parcels), and your water use is limited to that specific purpose. You cannot "irrigate" land from that well beyond a small area for a garden or landscaping. Effectively, due to the permitting process and actual water availability in most places, you cannot "make the land arable".

Don't forget that not all water is "potable" water. There are places around Wyoming where the well water is very foul stuff, not suitable for human consumption unless subjected to very expensive treatment. Keep in mind, too, that "surface" water on your parcel may not bring water rights with it to you; ie, that water use belongs to a senior water right holder and you cannot put it to any beneficial use ... nor can the senior water right holder allow you to use it, either. It either goes to the senior water right holder or the next junior water right holders in due course. Most of WY's water in these situations has long been assigned and you're not likely to get any use of it.

2) Is it impossible to build on land like this?

Not "impossible", but very challenging in many locales.

You can build a structure, even make it energy efficient and "off-grid" reliant to a great extent (if you're willing to make the lifestyle commitment), but you may be hauling in water to store in a cistern to have that for your personal needs.

As mentioned above, much of these lands are in areas where weather and access combine to make it a difficult proposition to live there ... and have access to employment, shopping, entertainment, medical services, police/fire protection, etc.

3) Assuming there is a private right-of-way and the parcel is not landlocked, what other reasons are there for it being so cheap if it can be irrigated and a dwelling can be built upon it?

The fallacy of your premise is that it's not cheap to irrigate or even obtain functional water in many of these locales.

Again, the weather can be a huge detrimental factor ... and the "access" to the property may be problematic in many months of the year. An important issue beyond "right of way" is who will maintain the access and plow it or keep it functionally viable during the inclement weather months.

For example, I have friends who live West of Cheyenne on 80 acres ... who, after 10 years of living there in a simply gorgeous stick built custom home (he's a GC contractor for major construction projects and knows how to build a place) ... have thrown in the towel and are leaving for a SW USA lower altitude home. And they do have a 6 gpm producing well with rights.

But (as I have related on prior posts) the place is almost inaccessible during the winter months due to the terrain, narrow ranch road which is not maintained by the surrounding ranch owner, and is impassible when the drifts get wind-blown for hundreds of yards on their access road. These folk only saw the property for a couple of years while building their dream house during the summer months and moved in during the summer (to escape the summer heat from where they'd moved from). I cautioned them that the place might not be accessible during the winter months. They laughed about it and told me that I was being an alarmist ... they had big 4x4 pick up trucks and a blade for their 50HP tractor, and they'd got plenty of food in the freezers and pantry.

Well, the first winter storms hit and they were stranded in their house. Could barely deal with the drifts on their own 1/2 mile driveway, let alone the dips and twists and turns on the exposed areas of the ranch road to their place (approx 9 miles to the nearest county maintained dirt road). They figured it would "pass" in a few days. The "few days" turned into a month, then two months. In desperation for groceries and having a good case of "cabin fever", they finally asked a neighbor with snowmobiles to come fetch them and then take them to town. They bought snowmobiles and leased an old barn near the county road where they could keep their newly bought pick-up truck ... so they could shuttle from home to the barn with snowmobiles and then have the truck to get to town. Winter access was a chore and it wasn't so funny anymore. They came to realize that their neighbors off of the ranch access road only lived in their houses during the summer months and the ranch was essentially shut down during those months, too. Their site overlooks I-80 to the North, but they can't get there from home without a lot of work during the winter months.

So after 10 years of doing this, they've had enough. Going to Cheyenne ... a 45 minute trip in clear weather ... is a multi-hour adventure if I-80 is open up their way. I-80 closures have left them stranded in Cheyenne multiple times over the years, sometimes for days at a time.

What is significant here is that this situation is not unusual on many of the "cheap" ranch parcels around the state. I've seen this with a number of 40-acre subdivisions, where winter access is problematic. Even where a developer promises that they will maintain access by plowing, the reality is that many don't honor that promise. Some don't because they aren't truthful to begin with, some don't because they don't have the cash flow to do so for a couple of houses/residents, and some never had any intentions of doing more than a minor plowing once or twice a season.

Good luck with your search for a cheap place to locate here.

[volosong]

I'm curious about something concering water rights, and I suspect the answer is "depends on the circumstances and situation", or "it's not economically feasible". But I'll ask anyway.

Disregarding surface and sub-surface water, is it legally allowed for a property owner to "capture" precipitation and divert it to a cistern? To "grab" it while it is falling and before it runs off into a stream/river or into the ground water table.

[InchingWest]

Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy

I look on land-for-sale sites of all types and find that there are large, cheap plots available in states like Wyoming. It's desert land, but my questions are:

1) Is it impossible to make the land arable by drilling a well and irrigating?

Yes. It comes down to simple geography and geology. Often the water table is so high above where you would have to drill so as to make a well impractical. There's a reason people tend to not build homes on mountain slopes.

2) Is it impossible to build on land like this?

Nothing is impossible, how bottomless is your wallet? There are always cost considerations. Also consider the fact that the remoteness of a location may mean having a hard time finding a reputable company to build your home that isn't insanely far away. Regardless you are ultimately paying any contractor anywhere for his drive time....and for each and every worker too.

3) Assuming there is a private right-of-way and the parcel is not landlocked, what other reasons are there for it being so cheap if it can be irrigated and a dwelling can be built upon it?

The sky's the limit, but at the opposite end of the spectrum there is a reason the phrase "dirt cheap" exists....because dirt is not rare at all. There's plenty of room for every person on the planet to have quite a bit of acreage to themselves, but most of it is not conducive to agriculture, and most of the rest isn't even suitable for the roughest forms of ranching.