The Problem of Abrogation
Posted 05-25-2016 at 11:06 PM by Continuum
[QUOTE=Khalif;44184579]The same charge was made by the Jews when Jesus had brought a new message, and so did both the Jews and the Christians when the Qur'an was revealed.
Here is the passage with its context to show that the message in 2:106 is directed towards the People of the previous Book (followers of the Book):
[b][2.105] [color=blue]Those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book do not like, nor do the polytheists, that the good should be sent down to you from your Lord, and Allah chooses especially whom He pleases for His mercy, and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.[/color]
[2.106] [color=blue]Whatever ayatin[/b] (message) [b]We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?[/color][/b]
Therefore, it is reference to God's "power over all things" and that He can send another message "similar or better"; the Injeel after the Taurat, and the Qur'an after the Injeel. Do you (People of the Book) not know that God has power over all things?
The verse 2:106 is not about verses of the Qur'an but about the verses of the previous message that had been forgotten and some verses were no longer needed such as about Sabbath.
As I stated previously, one needs to understand the Qur'an before one can understand the verse 2:106. It is not about any verse of the Qur'an being abrogated but parts of the previous messages that had been either forgotten or were no longer needed in that form otherwise there would be no need for the Qur'an.
Anyone claiming that verses of the Qur'an have been abrogated (meaning cancelled and made null and void completely) is unable to understand the Qur'an and unable to reconcile a verse in the Qur'an with another verse of the Qur'an on the same issue. So such a person thinks of an easy way out; the verse he can't reconcile with the other verses is abrogated. Thus the problem in his mind is solved. But, in reality, he has created another problem for himself; he is unable to tell how many verses of the Qur'an, he thinks, have been abrogated. They all have their own number in ignorance.
Conclusion: No verse of the Qur'an was ever made annul or forgotten. The latter is quite telling! Which verse of the Qur'an was forgotten if they are all there?[/QUOTE]
As a Muslim and believer you have no choice but to sway to what suit your beliefs, I.e. insisting 2:106 refers to abrogation of the old scriptures rather that the verses [ayat] within the Quran.
However the contexts of the Quran indicate otherwise.
Here are the verses related to abrogation[INDENT]2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
13:39 Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book.
16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.[/INDENT]
Note this argument from an ex-Muslim for abrogation related to verses rather than whole scriptures.
[url=http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Farooq_Ibrahim/abrogation.htm]The Problem of Abrogation in the Quran[/url]
There are four possibilities relating to the term 'abrogation' in the Quran, i.e.
[INDENT]• Muslim scholars of old hold to the concept that some ayahs in the Quran abrogate other ayahs in the Quran, but do not all hold to the same set of abrogated and abrogating ayahs.
• Other Muslim scholars are of the opinion that the Quran may abrogate the Quran as well as the Sunnah (deed or example of Mohammad) and vice versa.
• Some Muslim scholars hold that the Quran abrogates all the previous scriptures, specifically the scriptures sent to Musa and Isa, but not itself.
• Some Muslim scholars, especially of recent times do not believe in the concept of abrogation at all.[/INDENT]
Faroog argued that 2:106, 13:39 and 16:101 are most effective in reference to the abrogation of the verses in the Quran rather than the whole scriptures like Torah or Injil. If Allah intended to abrogate the whole scriptures Allah would have used the term 'kitab' as used in similar contexts.
He argued that when the Quran refers to the Torah or Injil it use the term 'Kitab' but 2:106 refers to ayat (āyatin ءَايَةٍ ا ى ا ).
There are many cases in the Quran where abrogation need to be applied to enable the Quran to make sense.
[B]An example[/B] that is often used to show the topic of abrogation as relevant and true in the Quran is the topic of wine drinking.
In early Islam, wine drinking and gambling were allowed - Surah 2:219:
[INDENT]2:219They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider-[/INDENT]
From this ayah it was taught that drinking and gambling could provide a benefit and also have bad effects. To identify that the practice of drinking wine was not uncommon among Muslims, another ayah was revealed that forbade the Muslims to come to prayer drunk, Surah [B]4:43[/B]:
Then the ayah Surah 5:93 was revealed to stop drinking wine since it is an abomination.[INDENT]5:93 O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (Dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, - of Satan’s handiwork: Eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.[/INDENT]
If the concept of abrogation is not introduced then it shows there are contradiction and confusions in the Quran.
Therefore 2:106 refers to abrogation of the verses within the Quran rather than the whole scripture.
In fact there is no abrogation of the Torah and Injil as mentioned in the Quran.
What actually happened was the Jews and Christians corrupted the original revelations from Allah and thus these later corrupted versions of the scriptures are automatically not Islamic at all. There is no question of abrogation in this case.
There are many verses in the Quran that necessitate the applications of abrogation to enable them to make sense otherwise the Quran will look bad, e.g.;
[INDENT]• Surah 9:29 abrogating Surah 2:109
• Surah 2:185 abrogating Surah 2:184
• Surah 9:36 abrogating Surah 2:217 and Surah 45:14[/INDENT]
Therefore, since in contexts there are many cases where there are variations and contradictions in the Quran between certain sets of verses, examples given above, verse 2:106 is most effective to be referred to abrogation of verses within the Quran rather than abrogating older scriptures.
[b]Another point:[/b]
Re abrogation I agree in [b]some[/b] cases it is not a matter of making the older verses null and void. I believe in some cases the older verse is still applicable where the circumstances warrant it but the latest verse override ultimately if need be.
[QUOTE=Continuum;44191981]Post[/QUOTE]
Here is the passage with its context to show that the message in 2:106 is directed towards the People of the previous Book (followers of the Book):
[b][2.105] [color=blue]Those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book do not like, nor do the polytheists, that the good should be sent down to you from your Lord, and Allah chooses especially whom He pleases for His mercy, and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.[/color]
[2.106] [color=blue]Whatever ayatin[/b] (message) [b]We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?[/color][/b]
Therefore, it is reference to God's "power over all things" and that He can send another message "similar or better"; the Injeel after the Taurat, and the Qur'an after the Injeel. Do you (People of the Book) not know that God has power over all things?
The verse 2:106 is not about verses of the Qur'an but about the verses of the previous message that had been forgotten and some verses were no longer needed such as about Sabbath.
As I stated previously, one needs to understand the Qur'an before one can understand the verse 2:106. It is not about any verse of the Qur'an being abrogated but parts of the previous messages that had been either forgotten or were no longer needed in that form otherwise there would be no need for the Qur'an.
Anyone claiming that verses of the Qur'an have been abrogated (meaning cancelled and made null and void completely) is unable to understand the Qur'an and unable to reconcile a verse in the Qur'an with another verse of the Qur'an on the same issue. So such a person thinks of an easy way out; the verse he can't reconcile with the other verses is abrogated. Thus the problem in his mind is solved. But, in reality, he has created another problem for himself; he is unable to tell how many verses of the Qur'an, he thinks, have been abrogated. They all have their own number in ignorance.
Conclusion: No verse of the Qur'an was ever made annul or forgotten. The latter is quite telling! Which verse of the Qur'an was forgotten if they are all there?[/QUOTE]
As a Muslim and believer you have no choice but to sway to what suit your beliefs, I.e. insisting 2:106 refers to abrogation of the old scriptures rather that the verses [ayat] within the Quran.
However the contexts of the Quran indicate otherwise.
Here are the verses related to abrogation[INDENT]2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
13:39 Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book.
16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.[/INDENT]
Note this argument from an ex-Muslim for abrogation related to verses rather than whole scriptures.
[url=http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Farooq_Ibrahim/abrogation.htm]The Problem of Abrogation in the Quran[/url]
There are four possibilities relating to the term 'abrogation' in the Quran, i.e.
[INDENT]• Muslim scholars of old hold to the concept that some ayahs in the Quran abrogate other ayahs in the Quran, but do not all hold to the same set of abrogated and abrogating ayahs.
• Other Muslim scholars are of the opinion that the Quran may abrogate the Quran as well as the Sunnah (deed or example of Mohammad) and vice versa.
• Some Muslim scholars hold that the Quran abrogates all the previous scriptures, specifically the scriptures sent to Musa and Isa, but not itself.
• Some Muslim scholars, especially of recent times do not believe in the concept of abrogation at all.[/INDENT]
Faroog argued that 2:106, 13:39 and 16:101 are most effective in reference to the abrogation of the verses in the Quran rather than the whole scriptures like Torah or Injil. If Allah intended to abrogate the whole scriptures Allah would have used the term 'kitab' as used in similar contexts.
He argued that when the Quran refers to the Torah or Injil it use the term 'Kitab' but 2:106 refers to ayat (āyatin ءَايَةٍ ا ى ا ).
There are many cases in the Quran where abrogation need to be applied to enable the Quran to make sense.
[B]An example[/B] that is often used to show the topic of abrogation as relevant and true in the Quran is the topic of wine drinking.
In early Islam, wine drinking and gambling were allowed - Surah 2:219:
[INDENT]2:219They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider-[/INDENT]
From this ayah it was taught that drinking and gambling could provide a benefit and also have bad effects. To identify that the practice of drinking wine was not uncommon among Muslims, another ayah was revealed that forbade the Muslims to come to prayer drunk, Surah [B]4:43[/B]:
Then the ayah Surah 5:93 was revealed to stop drinking wine since it is an abomination.[INDENT]5:93 O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (Dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, - of Satan’s handiwork: Eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.[/INDENT]
If the concept of abrogation is not introduced then it shows there are contradiction and confusions in the Quran.
Therefore 2:106 refers to abrogation of the verses within the Quran rather than the whole scripture.
In fact there is no abrogation of the Torah and Injil as mentioned in the Quran.
What actually happened was the Jews and Christians corrupted the original revelations from Allah and thus these later corrupted versions of the scriptures are automatically not Islamic at all. There is no question of abrogation in this case.
There are many verses in the Quran that necessitate the applications of abrogation to enable them to make sense otherwise the Quran will look bad, e.g.;
[INDENT]• Surah 9:29 abrogating Surah 2:109
• Surah 2:185 abrogating Surah 2:184
• Surah 9:36 abrogating Surah 2:217 and Surah 45:14[/INDENT]
Therefore, since in contexts there are many cases where there are variations and contradictions in the Quran between certain sets of verses, examples given above, verse 2:106 is most effective to be referred to abrogation of verses within the Quran rather than abrogating older scriptures.
[b]Another point:[/b]
Re abrogation I agree in [b]some[/b] cases it is not a matter of making the older verses null and void. I believe in some cases the older verse is still applicable where the circumstances warrant it but the latest verse override ultimately if need be.
[QUOTE=Continuum;44191981]Post[/QUOTE]
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