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read back through all your posts...how many people agree with you vs those trying to explain how skewed your reasoning is???....the score is seriously in favor of others so don't go pointing out just one person for trying to make you see that your thinking processes are off base.
Whether someone agrees with me or not is irrelavant. My reasoning is still sound, my reasoning is based on my own best interests or the interests of thoes I care about. You may find my reasoning or opinions offensive but that is likely because they conflict with your best interests, thats what conflict is. Its why people build bigger and better weapons and why we have to have law enforcement, at a certian point one individual will get sick of dealing with anothers crap.
Military force is why the USA is still on top, if someone wants to rattle a saber or thinks their opinion hold weight then they get bombed. Everybody in the USA and parts of europe wants to hold hands and sing combia but the rest of the world only respects force. I wonder how much the A-10 pilots cared about the opinions of thoes on the death highway in the iraq war lol.
I got a little out in the cabbage patch but you get the idea. I am not some kid in need of some "learnin", I know very well the ability to impose force (whether that is political, literal, etc) dicates reality.
I wonder how much the A-10 pilots cared about the opinions of thoes on the death highway in the iraq war lol.
Well personally, I don't think the A-10 Pilots, Apache Helicopter pilots, or the F-16 Jocks, really cared what the scum on the ground thought.
The people that were on that road fleeing, were a world away from Denali's road, and those that were running away, was only after they had rape, killed and looted the Country they were being chased out of after the coalition forces made them to retreat.
I don't think most current visitors go all the way to Wonder Lake or Kantishna. When I was there the bus was pretty empty after the Eielson Visitor Center. If I was only there for a day and the Mountain wasn't out I wouldn't go any further than that, either.
Well when you only have four days a year for the public to do a trip into the park, it isn't just to see the mountain, there are the Animals and stuff to see that is an adventure. Going all the way back to Wonder Lake in itself a great trip, and I have done so at times when the Mountain isn't out, and enjoyed the trip a lot!
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Why shouldn't people be able to see the parts of the park they want to and not the rest? The Park Service has enough rules and nonsense as it is. They sure shouldn't be telling people they can't come in at all if they're not willing to spend 10 solid hours driving.
We're talking about people that put in for a lottery, beat out 12,000+- people to be one of the 400 picked for one of the four days that gets the privilege to drive back that 10 hours. It's not something that you would want to normally turn around and leave when there is so much to see unless you were just sick... But if you're that bored, I would doubt that you would put in for the lottery when you can ride back daily on the buses. Just someone's choice.
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Can't I just drive aimlessly up the Richardson without necessarily wanting to go to Fairbanks? I do that sometimes, because it's pretty and I like driving. Halfway is wherever I stop and turn around.
The Richardson Highway is a State Road, the Park Road is a Federal road.
When I lived in Valdez, I drove up the road a lot of times just to see the scenery or to go snowmachining. I also wouldn't want to ride the bus into the Park either, I don't care to be on cattle cars...
Well when you only have four days a year for the public to do a trip into the park, it isn't just to see the mountain, there are the Animals and stuff to see that is an adventure. Going all the way back to Wonder Lake in itself a great trip, and I have done so at times when the Mountain isn't out, and enjoyed the trip a lot!
We're talking about people that put in for a lottery, beat out 12,000+- people to be one of the 400 picked for one of the four days that gets the privilege to drive back that 10 hours. It's not something that you would want to normally turn around and leave when there is so much to see unless you were just sick... But if you're that bored, I would doubt that you would put in for the lottery when you can ride back daily on the buses. Just someone's choice
Weren't you talking about having it be one-way every day? Whether it's buses or private cars, that's what I'm responding to: the idea that the road should only go in one direction, all the time. And yes, I've been out to Wonder Lake. Spent three nights out there and was able to take the bus back to other areas to go hiking while I was there. Wouldn't be able to do that on a one-way road. Wouldn't see nearly as much of the scenery or wildlife if I was driving, either. Got to pay attention to the road, you know. Plus, for people who want to actually get out of the vehicle and use their own legs, you don't have any parking issues with the buses. If you're driving, all you can do is sit and drive, unless they make a bunch of parking lots all over the place, which would be kind of awful.
My point about not going all the way through the park was that I think the scenery is better between the entrance and Eielson (and when I was there we saw more wildlife in that area as well), so I'd rather spend more time in that area and may not always want to go all the way through the park, like a one-way road would force people to do. The current system gives people far more options for enjoying whatever part of the park they want, without the hassle of dealing with their own vehicle.
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The Richardson Highway is a State Road, the Park Road is a Federal road.
Not sure what that has to do with anything. I was responding to your analogy of driving to Fairbanks.
Weren't you talking about having it be one-way every day? Whether it's buses or private cars, that's what I'm responding to: the idea that the road should only go in one direction, all the time. And yes, I've been out to Wonder Lake. Spent three nights out there and was able to take the bus back to other areas to go hiking while I was there. Wouldn't be able to do that on a one-way road. Wouldn't see nearly as much of the scenery or wildlife if I was driving, either. Got to pay attention to the road, you know. Plus, for people who want to actually get out of the vehicle and use their own legs, you don't have any parking issues with the buses. If you're driving, all you can do is sit and drive, unless they make a bunch of parking lots all over the place, which would be kind of awful.
Well no matter what the car/bus load is, when they go in and come back on the same narrow road in spots it effectly doubles the traffic. If the road was a one way trip out and around (except emergencies and Park maintaince), you cut that in half and could allow for double the current trips into the Park without increasing the pressure on the wildlife, which seem to be oblivious to cars anyway.
People come from all over the World to see the park, not to go halfway and go back, it seems it would be nicer to make more slots for locals to have easier access to see their mountain!
Basically the park is closed for six months a year as it is. Would be nice if they allowed snowmachine trails through it as well!
Well no matter what the car/bus load is, when they go in and come back on the same narrow road in spots it effectly doubles the traffic. If the road was a one way trip out and around (except emergencies and Park maintaince), you cut that in half and could allow for double the current trips into the Park without increasing the pressure on the wildlife, which seem to be oblivious to cars anyway.
People come from all over the World to see the park, not to go halfway and go back, it seems it would be nicer to make more slots for locals to have easier access to see their mountain!
Basically the park is closed for six months a year as it is. Would be nice if they allowed snowmachine trails through it as well!
Well, as a future visitor to Denali NP, I can tell you that I would not want to be forced to drive all the way through and not be able to stop without there being tons of other cars and people all over the place. We have a road here that is effectively a National Park, the Blue Ridge Parkway, and they have these designated overlooks all over the place. The thing is, the overlooks are usually full of tourists making all kinds of noise and posing for pictures, and yet those still people still get on the Parkway and drive really slow/really carelessly, making the road much less enjoyable. I could see the Denali Park Road becoming exactly like the Blue Ridge Parkway without the pavement if they did that - except on the Parkway you can go whichever way you want. Now, none of that stuff diminishes the beauty of the BR Parkway, and it wouldn't in Denali either, but it would seemingly diminish the enjoyment of the visitors. The bus system sounds pretty smooth to me, the way people are describing it.
And I don't see why they couldn't put snowmachine trails through the Park without making it into a one-way vehicle road. Why couldn't they just open up the current road to winter snowmachine traffic?
Well, as a future visitor to Denali NP, I can tell you that I would not want to be forced to drive all the way through and not be able to stop without there being tons of other cars and people all over the place. We have a road here that is effectively a National Park, the Blue Ridge Parkway, and they have these designated overlooks all over the place. The thing is, the overlooks are usually full of tourists making all kinds of noise and posing for pictures, and yet those still people still get on the Parkway and drive really slow/really carelessly, making the road much less enjoyable. I could see the Denali Park Road becoming exactly like the Blue Ridge Parkway without the pavement if they did that - except on the Parkway you can go whichever way you want. Now, none of that stuff diminishes the beauty of the BR Parkway, and it wouldn't in Denali either, but it would seemingly diminish the enjoyment of the visitors. The bus system sounds pretty smooth to me, the way people are describing it.
And I don't see why they couldn't put snowmachine trails through the Park without making it into a one-way vehicle road. Why couldn't they just open up the current road to winter snowmachine traffic?
Well I don't think you understand that even with the 400 cars stretched out on the current 80 miles of road, they rarely pile up, in some of the rest area you may see 30 cars, but they come and go.
You can pull off the road anywhere you want to see what there is to see.
There is a lot of people that would be happy to take a group "Safari" on snowmachines, if not in a supervised group, the Jerks that think the rules don't apply to them would take off and run over everthing ruining it for the rest of us.
Basically the park is closed for six months a year as it is. Would be nice if they allowed snowmachine trails through it as well!
The snow machine trail thing is a federal regulation that applies to all designated wilderness areas all over the country, not just Denali. And it only applies to the "Old Park" not the new additions. There are a bunch of snow machine trails in the "New Park".
I think it would be great to allow people to snow machine the road, but I don't know how that would work and still be "legal". Plus, if you think that road is gnarly in the summer time, you should check it out in winter. There are places along the Eilson Bluffs that get socked in with 12-20 ft snow drifts. I could just see some yahoo going over the edge and then suing the Park Service for his own stupidity.
Well personally, I don't think the A-10 Pilots, Apache Helicopter pilots, or the F-16 Jocks, really cared what the scum on the ground thought.
The people that were on that road fleeing, were a world away from Denali's road, and those that were running away, was only after they had rape, killed and looted the Country they were being chased out of after the coalition forces made them to retreat.
What is your point in that comparison?
My point is that someones disagreement or oppinon is largely irrelavent, its who ever has the means to impose massive force that wins.
My point is that someones disagreement or oppinon is largely irrelavent, its who ever has the means to impose massive force that wins.
Sorry, Not a clue to what you are referring to.. ?
The Iraq personnal running from Kuwait that got bombed on the highway (after looting and killing there) or that the Park Service allows people to travel Denali Park Road to let people go see the park in limited numbers?
You're not very coherent in your response and I really don't see what either have in common. Unless the Park Police now have armed Bell Jet Rangers to enforce the traffic within the park by blowing the people off the road for speeding... Which sometimes I could aggree with!
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