Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Kwanzaa is an African-American holiday that was created in the 1970s by an Afro-Studies professor, so of course Afro-Latinos are not going to celebrate it. Hell, I don't even know of any African-American people who do.
And during the slave trade, over 90% of Africans were actually sent to the Caribbean and South America. The U.S. never received more than 10% of the share. Why else does Brazil posses the largest share of people with African ancestral ties outside of the continent of Africa? Why else does the Dominican Republic have a population that is at least 73% Euro-African admixture?
While I disagree about the "lame and uncultured" part of the OP's original argument, he does have a point in that Latinos, primarily those of countries with extensive African history, are known to either downplay or outright dismiss their African ancestry while simultaneously boast about their whiteness.
The Dominican case is due to certain bloody events that took place there when the Haitians rebelled against the French and later tried to conquer the Spanish side.
A census done in 1795 counted almost 40% of the people there as "Spaniards" which is taken to mean whites. The population was also around 200,000 for the whole colony and most were free (the bulk consisted of whites and free mulattoes.) After the Haitian disturbances ended and the recurrent Haitian invasions of Dominican territory all through out the 1800s, the Dominican population had shrunk to roughly 60,000 people. Many of the white and mulattoes were butchered during the Haitian invasions, but most of the whites were so distressed with the events that they packed their things and left for either Puerto Rico, Cuba or South America. Many of the mulattoes also left, but when the population decline settled at around 60,000; the white population as a proportion of the total population had shrunk significantly with the vast majority consisting of mulattoes.
Even as recently as 1871 an American named Samuel Hazard was sent by the US government to get a sense of what the Dominicans thought about the possibility of having their country annexed to the USA. He visited the areas where most of the population lived and also Haiti, and his description of the Dominican population was that it was overwhelmingly of mixed race, but much closer to white than black.
It was not until the late 1800s and through out the 1900s that the Dominican Republic receives a wave of black immigration from other parts of the Caribbean and the ensuing darkening of the population began.
Even today, according to DNA studies that have been done, the African input in the average Dominican ranges in the 40-45%, depending on the study. When one considers that before the 20th Century the average Dominican was much whiter than today (probably 20-25% of the genes of the average person was of African origin, because I highly doubt that having 40-45% of African genes can make most people appear closer to white than black) and before the disturbances with the Haitian military invasions the Dominican population also had a relatively large presence of whites; it becomes clear that the slave trade in that country was not that great.
In fact, all historical documents points that only 30,000 African slaves were imported to Santo Domingo during the 300 years of Spanish rule, most during the first century of colonization (1500-1600). Also that by the mid-1600s most of the population was free even though most were mixed and the influx of white Spaniards in the 1700s further clarifies the situation.
Simply put, had the Dominican population not lost two-thirds of its original colonial population during the ordeals they faced with the Haitians and had the country not received the wave of black immigration from the late 1800s and through the 20th Century, the current Dominican population would had actually reflected its colonial imprint.
The Spanish countries that had significant imports of African slaves (well over 200,000) are Cuba and I think Colombia, Mexico, and maybe a handful of other places; but, these countries are a minority and in most of them, population changes through the centuries has blurred what the original colonial population looked like. In all except Dominican Republic and to an extent Cuba, the population trend has been either to greater mestizos or whites. Cuba's population became increasing darker during the last century of its Spanish colonial years (1800s) when slavery picked up significantly as the former French planters from Haiti settled in eastern Cuba and continued with business as usual. The Spanish saw how profitable sugar was and began to also get into the business, increasing demand for slave labor. Until then, slavery in Cuba had been quite weak, similar to Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico.
Dominican Republic became darker through migration of free blacks and mulattoes searching for work.
Puerto Rico went through a whitening period, especially after the US took over and many of the Afro-Puerto Ricans were encouraged to move to the US mainland. But even before the US took over, most Puerto Ricans were already white.
Both of your comments are actually wrong. Genetic studies have been done consistently and show that many populations of Spanish speaking Latin American and Spanish speaking Caribbean nations are on average tri racial when populational and genetic/gene pool tabulations and tests are ran and calculated and configured.
African genetic markers would be found, even if the ancestry of the person was a 16th century Spanish conquistador with a distant Moorish ancestry. That does not imply that any African "culture" trickled down through 30 or 40 generation in a way that would influence the cultural makeup of the country today. There are likely as many or more genetic markers showing Arab ancestry, but it would be a stretch to argue that Latin America is deeply rooted in its Arabian culture and you're tired of people there shunning their Arabian roots.
African genetic markers would be found, even if the ancestry of the person was a 16th century Spanish conquistador with a distant Moorish ancestry. That does not imply that any African "culture" trickled down through 30 or 40 generation in a way that would influence the cultural makeup of the country today. There are likely as many or more genetic markers showing Arab ancestry, but it would be a stretch to argue that Latin America is deeply rooted in its Arabian culture and you're tired of people there shunning their Arabian roots.
True, although the comment you responded to was about genetics and ancestry, and demographics, not about the culture. In other comments though, all I said was that the cultures have so many mixed influences that it has simply become just something unique to the point where it's hard to determine or state where exactly it may have came from.
And in addition genetic studies test on average the existence of any or all groups in those respective places.
Your comment makes valid points however, but misinterprets the point trying to be made.
Many Latin Americans, have Sephardic Jewish ancestry as well to detected in their genetics as well!
The Dominican case is due to certain bloody events that took place there when the Haitians rebelled against the French and later tried to conquer the Spanish side.
A census done in 1795 counted almost 40% of the people there as "Spaniards" which is taken to mean whites. The population was also around 200,000 for the whole colony and most were free (the bulk consisted of whites and free mulattoes.) After the Haitian disturbances ended and the recurrent Haitian invasions of Dominican territory all through out the 1800s, the Dominican population had shrunk to roughly 60,000 people. Many of the white and mulattoes were butchered during the Haitian invasions, but most of the whites were so distressed with the events that they packed their things and left for either Puerto Rico, Cuba or South America. Many of the mulattoes also left, but when the population decline settled at around 60,000; the white population as a proportion of the total population had shrunk significantly with the vast majority consisting of mulattoes.
Even as recently as 1871 an American named Samuel Hazard was sent by the US government to get a sense of what the Dominicans thought about the possibility of having their country annexed to the USA. He visited the areas where most of the population lived and also Haiti, and his description of the Dominican population was that it was overwhelmingly of mixed race, but much closer to white than black.
It was not until the late 1800s and through out the 1900s that the Dominican Republic receives a wave of black immigration from other parts of the Caribbean and the ensuing darkening of the population began.
Even today, according to DNA studies that have been done, the African input in the average Dominican ranges in the 40-45%, depending on the study. When one considers that before the 20th Century the average Dominican was much whiter than today (probably 20-25% of the genes of the average person was of African origin, because I highly doubt that having 40-45% of African genes can make most people appear closer to white than black) and before the disturbances with the Haitian military invasions the Dominican population also had a relatively large presence of whites; it becomes clear that the slave trade in that country was not that great.
In fact, all historical documents points that only 30,000 African slaves were imported to Santo Domingo during the 300 years of Spanish rule, most during the first century of colonization (1500-1600). Also that by the mid-1600s most of the population was free even though most were mixed and the influx of white Spaniards in the 1700s further clarifies the situation.
Simply put, had the Dominican population not lost two-thirds of its original colonial population during the ordeals they faced with the Haitians and had the country not received the wave of black immigration from the late 1800s and through the 20th Century, the current Dominican population would had actually reflected its colonial imprint.
The Spanish countries that had significant imports of African slaves (well over 200,000) are Cuba and I think Colombia, Mexico, and maybe a handful of other places; but, these countries are a minority and in most of them, population changes through the centuries has blurred what the original colonial population looked like. In all except Dominican Republic and to an extent Cuba, the population trend has been either to greater mestizos or whites. Cuba's population became increasing darker during the last century of its Spanish colonial years (1800s) when slavery picked up significantly as the former French planters from Haiti settled in eastern Cuba and continued with business as usual. The Spanish saw how profitable sugar was and began to also get into the business, increasing demand for slave labor. Until then, slavery in Cuba had been quite weak, similar to Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico.
Dominican Republic became darker through migration of free blacks and mulattoes searching for work.
Puerto Rico went through a whitening period, especially after the US took over and many of the Afro-Puerto Ricans were encouraged to move to the US mainland. But even before the US took over, most Puerto Ricans were already white.
You say that DR was darkened and blackened and that had it not happened that DR would have recieved its colonial population imprint, but you also forget that it didnt help that many colonial whites left DR for other colonies due to DR being very derilict and not profitable for a significant period of the colonial era. In addition whitening even occured in DR. Many French fled to DR and remained there. The last Spanish colonial period of the 1860s brought in more migrations of whites to DR. Many whites also came and were involved in labor and work projects. the then we also can't forget that Trujillo whitened the island by inviting European Jewish immigrants and other whites and even Middle Easterners to DR to whiten the nation. So I'd say that DR has it's fair contrast and balance and mix and diversity. =)
That was negligible. When the Dominicans make the war of the reconquest against the French, who had taken over the Spanish colony after getting rid of Touissant Loverture in 1802, there were only 2,000 French in the Spanish part, almost all of them living in the city of Santo Domingo. Most of them left after the Dominicans killed a significant number of the French troops and the remaining French troops deserted General Leclerc. Once Leclerc realized that he was alone in trying to maintain the French power over the Dominicans, he committed suicide by literally shooting his brains out.
The Dominicans detested the French that migrated to their side of the island and most of the French that were not killed by the Dominicans in the War of Reconquest, packed their things and left the island completely. And that is how in 1809 the Spanish part of the island reincorporate itself into the Spanish Empire and the desire of the Dominican population had finally been fulfilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmizedFactions
The last Spanish colonial period of the 1860s brought in more migrations of whites to DR.
The numbers were negligible. That period went from 1861 to 1865. Apart that 4 years isn't enough for a large migration wave to start and sustain itself, most of that time was spent fighting the new Spanish authorities because they wanted to govern the Dominicans with an iron fist as they had been doing in Cuba and in Puerto Rico. The Dominicans were not going to put up with that again and that is the reason they, after inviting the Spanish back, within months changed their minds and started the process of kicking the Spanish authorities out again.
Also, the Haitians didn't like the idea of having a powerful army on the other side of the island because it could had undermined their own political stability and maybe even their own independence. This became clear to the Haitians when in the beginning of the last Spanish colonial period in Dominican Republic, a group of Haitian bandits went into Dominican territory and stole some cows from cattle ranches near the border. This practice of stealing cattle and other animals from Dominican farmers and ranchers was a long held practice and while Dominicans resented the Haitians for this, they never truly reacted with force.
Well this time the Spanish authorities were not going to put up with this and when the Dominican cattle ranchers complained to the authorities, the Spanish government in Santo Domingo demanded Haiti to pay reparations to the Dominican cattle ranchers. The Haitian government refused to even acknowledge that the theft took place, so the Spaniards send a military vessel and placed it right off the coast of Port-au-Prince and threatened to bomb the city if Haiti didn't pay reparations. The Haitian government felt obligated to pay and they did, but the Spanish also demanded (in an attempt to humiliate the Haitian government) that the Haitian president also salute with the correct honors the Spanish flag right in Port-au-Prince and the then Haitian president saluted the Spanish flag, although it is said that he did so while complaining of this "injustice."
After that, the Haitians were determined on getting rid of the Spanish authorities and they spread several propaganda among the Dominican population that effectively made Dominicans lose their trust on the Spanish authorities and was the ignition of the war of restoration. The Haitians even supplied the arms that the Dominicans would had used to fight the Spanish.
Haiti preferred to have a weak and independent country as a neighbor that they could keep in check at will than a European power that would keep the Haitians themselves in check.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmizedFactions
Then we also can't forget that Trujillo whitened the island by inviting European Jewish immigrants and other whites and even Middle Easterners to DR to whiten the nation.
The numbers were also negligible because it amounted to roughly 6,000 people and when Trujillo was killed, most of them left the country. Most of the white Dominicans that exist today belong to families that have been in the country for well more than 200 years, but their numbers would had been greater had the events in the early to mid 1800s not taken place.
Dominican Republic is the only true Afro latin country, though Cuba and Puerto Rico also have a large Afro descended population. Though, even these countries have much more mulattos and tri-racials than actual blacks. Yet, the African culture is still prevalent in these countries as well.
Colombia, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Costa Rica, and Nicaragua are mainly mestizo and white, and only have blacks in certain areas.
Southern South America is white
Mexico and northern Central American is mestizo/indigenous
Wht they claim is "latino culture" it all is deeply rooted in african culture, im tired of majority hispanics shunning their african roots, just imagine if the spainards, portugese, french, english, etc didnt partake in the atlantic slave trade & didnt bring africans to the americas how lame and uncultured the western hemisphere would be!
Depends.
There is no ONE Latino culture. It is different cultures over several different countries, with the culture perhaps being very different in each country. The only thing they have in common is their language is derived from Latin. In some cases there might be a heavy roots in African culture, in others none.
There is no ONE Latino culture. It is different cultures over several different countries, with the culture perhaps being very different in each country. The only thing they have in common is their language is derived from Latin. In some cases there might be a heavy roots in African culture, in others none.
It is similiar to Anglo culture.
There is more than a linguistic connection. Aside from the obvious religious connections there are also similar racial conceptions, and the civil law system inherited from the Spanish. And that law system is important I think. Businessmen coming from the United States used to common law in the United States seem to think so when they end up negotiating the civil code system found in whatever Latin American country they are in. The conception of family, friends, and state tends to be different in the cultures of Latin America in comparison to the USA too. Whereas the state tends to be more important than family and friends in the USA the reverse is true in Latin America. You put your family and friends in power when you obtain power. You watch out for your family before your country.
You put your family and friends in power when you obtain power. You watch out for your family before your country.
I think there is a fair amount of truth to this. This difference in culture is clearly evident in areas with a lot of Latinos like where I live. They do tend to have a reputation for looking after their own. It's often in sharp contrast to American culture and at times can cause some resentment.
There is more than a linguistic connection. Aside from the obvious religious connections there are also similar racial conceptions, and the civil law system inherited from the Spanish. And that law system is important I think. Businessmen coming from the United States used to common law in the United States seem to think so when they end up negotiating the civil code system found in whatever Latin American country they are in. The conception of family, friends, and state tends to be different in the cultures of Latin America in comparison to the USA too. Whereas the state tends to be more important than family and friends in the USA the reverse is true in Latin America. You put your family and friends in power when you obtain power. You watch out for your family before your country.
Latino != Spanish.
Latino=Spanish, French, or Portuguese speaking, located within the American continents.
What you are referring to is Hispanoamérica. I assure you there is very big differences in culture in some of these countries.
Generally only former English colonies practice common law, and it is mixed with civil law too.
That emphasis on family is normal in most of the world.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
