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And what's your point? Hip hop, R&B, and reggae are now vastly more popular in sub Saharan Africa.
My point is that there isn't any other type of music in the western hemisphere with a stronger and genuine African influence than Afro-Latino music. You guys didn't even know how to play poly-rhythms, before you got that "Spanish Tinge". African-Americans were a culturally neutered people just playing simplified variations of southern Anglo music, before the Afro-Cuban influence your music was rustic as hell with simple 4/4 rhythms.
My point is that there isn't any other type of music in the western hemisphere with a stronger and genuine African influence than Afro-Latino music. You guys didn't even know how to play poly-rhythms, before you got that "Spanish Tinge". African-Americans were a culturally neutered people just playing simplified variations of southern Anglo music, before the Afro-Cuban influence your music was rustic as hell with simple 4/4 rhythms.
Sorry don't know what planet you are living on but the music of all parts of the Caribbean draw from similar influences and the rhythmic and explicitly African influences in dance hall and soca are way stronger than in salsa.
Play reggae or soca to a group of Nigerians and Ghanaians and they can relate much more to it than salsa. And they can dance to it without learning how to ball room dance European style.
BTW I am a proud West Indian man. So don't dump your hatred of AAs on me and think that it has any relevance.
Also the AFROCUBAN musicians were very impressed by jazz so I wonder why you think that the influences were in just one direction. Any one who knows New Orleans will tell you that it was a CARIBBEAN city so the same mix of influences that led to the development of Cuban music also was in existence there. Watch Treme when it comes on. The is New Orleans in living color.
Sorry don't know what planet you are living on but the music of all parts of the Caribbean draw from similar influences and the rhythmic and explicitly African influences in dance hall and soca are way stronger than in salsa.
Play reggae or soca to a group of Nigerians and Ghanaians and they can relate much more to it than salsa. And they can dance to it without learning how to ball room dance European style.
Apparently you don't know what Salsa is. It's not really a specific genre. It's more of an umbrella term that comprises a whole bunch of different Afro-Cuban styles, all of which are very African influenced, but also have very strong European influences. That's what makes Afro-Latino music so great. You get the best of both worlds, the melodic/harmonic complexity of European music, mixed with African poly-rhythms. It doesn't get better than that.
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BTW I am a proud West Indian man. So don't dump your hatred of AAs on me and think that it has any relevance.
I thought you were an African-American, or at least partly so. So you're just West Indian, and not mixed with African-American?
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Also the AFROCUBAN musicians were very impressed by jazz so I wonder why you think that the influences were in just one direction. Any one who knows New Orleans will tell you that it was a CARIBBEAN city so the same mix of influences that led to the development of Cuban music also was in existence there. Watch Treme when it comes on. The is New Orleans in living color.
Influences always go in both directions, as people are always exchanging ideas and influencing each other. But again, this influence was tied in with the culture of New Orleans, which seems to be distinct from the typical Afro-american culture. New Orleans is a very diverse place compared the rest of the south, which was almost an isolated backwater compared to the rest of the country. Something as complex as Jazz music could have never come out of anywhere else in the southern US, with it's strong Afro-Latin influenced. Just listen to older African-American music, it's very basic and rough stuff compared to the more cosmopolitan and wordly sounds of Afro-Latino music.
Apparently you don't know what Salsa is. It's not really a specific genre. It's more of an umbrella term that comprises a whole bunch of different Afro-Cuban styles, all of which are very African influenced, but also have very strong European influences. That's what makes Afro-Latino music so great. You get the best of both worlds, the melodic/harmonic complexity of European music, mixed with African poly-rhythms. It doesn't get better than that.
I thought you were an African-American, or at least partly so. So you're just West Indian, and not mixed with African-American?
Influences always go in both directions, as people are always exchanging ideas and influencing each other. But again, this influence was tied in with the culture of New Orleans, which seems to be distinct from the typical Afro-american culture. New Orleans is a very diverse place compared the rest of the south, which was almost an isolated backwater compared to the rest of the country. Something as complex as Jazz music could have never come out of anywhere else in the southern US, with it's strong Afro-Latin influenced. Just listen to older African-American music, it's very basic and rough stuff compared to the more cosmopolitan and wordly sounds of Afro-Latino music.
There is no one AA experience. New Orleans was a unique kind, just as the Mississippi Delta was another, and many others also exist. I invite you to tell all those multiple genres of jazz musicians as well as the Mardi Gras Indians that they aren't AA. Indeed much of AA musical traditions were born in N/O.
I am fully familiar with the genres of AfroCuban music that Fania plays. I am also aware that they do not play the REAL rumba that one can find sometimes in Central Park in the summer when the cops don't drive the drummers away. And you may not know this but very few Caribbean musical cultures do not have an explicitly African influence, yes many with less explicitly Euro influences that you cite in the genre that Fania played.
While it has African influences to say that its the most African music in the Americas as a joke. Glad that you now pace it within a Euro/Afro continuum, indeed even further towards the Euro than even merengue is. A sub Saharan African will see Fania music as being only slightly more African than the R&B/hip hop which they eagerly consume. I
You have your hatred of AAs and every thing to do with them so I will not waste time in ranting about which music is better. I will leave it with the notion that AA music DOMINATES the world and is quite popular among Latin musicians who do not exhibit the hatreds that you do.
Sorry. I am born in Guyana and arrived in the USA as a 25 y/o so my attitudes were formed prior to arrival in the USA. So your attempts to discredit me by putting me within what you consider to be a debased context in which you place AAs is completely irrelevant.
I must say that you do not seem to know much about the rest of the Caribbean. Learn more about it before you make claims about Fania music being the most African (popular) music in the Americas.
By the way I have been to several African nations. Have you?
There is no one AA experience. New Orleans was a unique kind, just as the Mississippi Delta was another, and many others also exist. I invite you to tell all those multiple genres of jazz musicians as well as the Mardi Gras Indians that they aren't AA. Indeed much of AA musical traditions were born in N/O.
When did I ever say or even imply that those people were not African-Americans? Your excessive use of straw-man arguments is getting old now. You either don't bother to fully read what you're responding to, or you have some serious comprehension problems. The people in New Orleans who developed Jazz where indeed mostly African Americans, no doubt about that. However they were unique in the fact they were exposed to so many different cultures and influences, unlike most other African-Americans, who lived in more culturally isolated parts of the south.
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I am fully familiar with the genres of AfroCuban music that Fania plays. I am also aware that they do not play the REAL rumba that one can find sometimes in Central Park in the summer when the cops don't drive the drummers away. And you may not know this but very few Caribbean musical cultures do not have an explicitly African influence, yes many with less explicitly Euro influences that you cite in the genre that Fania played.
There's more to Afro-Cuban music than the Fania All-stars though. I just posted that one video as a popular example here. You keep talking and bragging about all these other Afro-Caribbean genres, yet I don't see you elaborating on anything or even posting any examples of the music you're referring to. Here's an idea for you, how about you go ahead and post some music from your own native country, and we'll compare it to the music of Cuba. Let's see how it matches up.
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While it has African influences to say that its the most African music in the Americas as a joke. Glad that you now pace it within a Euro/Afro continuum, indeed even further towards the Euro than even merengue is. A sub Saharan African will see Fania music as being only slightly more African than the R&B/hip hop which they eagerly consume. I
That was clearly hyperbole on my part. Cuban music is too European to be the "most African". It has very strong African influences, but also very strong Spanish, and other European and Mediterranean influences, however. It doesn't have to be a case of having one or the other(European or African), so I don't know what you mean by this "Afro/Euro continuum". Afro-Cuban music is both more European and African than Black American music, as a matter of fact. And don't forget that most popular forms of American music (post-Jazz), including Hip-Hop and RnB, owe a debt to that "Spanish Tinge" of Afro-Cuban music.
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You have your hatred of AAs and every thing to do with them so I will not waste time in ranting about which music is better. I will leave it with the notion that AA music DOMINATES the world and is quite popular among Latin musicians who do not exhibit the hatreds that you do.
Sorry. I am born in Guyana and arrived in the USA as a 25 y/o so my attitudes were formed prior to arrival in the USA. So your attempts to discredit me by putting me within what you consider to be a debased context in which you place AAs is completely irrelevant.
I don't have have any hatred or ill-will towards African Americans. Just because I criticize some of them for their hypocrisy and lack of character doesn't mean I hate all of them. Do you hate all these groups you're constantly criticizing in here. What kind of messed up logic is that? I very much like African-American music, as a matter of fact. If it wasn't for them I think the music scene in the US would be pretty boring and uninteresting. African-Americans have definitely had a great deal of influence in the world of pop culture unlike any other group in history.
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I must say that you do not seem to know much about the rest of the Caribbean. Learn more about it before you make claims about Fania music being the most African (popular) music in the Americas.
Why don't you just rep your country? You keep mentioning the Caribbean/West Indies, but you never say anything specific about Guyana in here. All I know about that country is that there's alot of Indian people over there, that's it. Nothing else comes to mind. How about you show me some music from Guayana? Let's see how it compares to Cuban music.
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By the way I have been to several African nations. Have you?
Good for you. I've never been to Africa. What countries have you been to specifically? Africa is a pretty big place.
When did I ever say or even imply that those people were not African-Americans? Your excessive use of straw-man arguments is getting old now. You either don't bother to fully read what you're responding to, or you have some serious comprehension problems. The people in New Orleans who developed Jazz where indeed mostly African Americans, no doubt about that. However they were unique in the fact they were exposed to so many different cultures and influences, unlike most other African-Americans, who lived in more culturally isolated parts of the south.
There's more to Afro-Cuban music than the Fania All-stars though. I just posted that one video as a popular example here. You keep talking and bragging about all these other Afro-Caribbean genres, yet I don't see you elaborating on anything or even posting any examples of the music you're referring to. Here's an idea for you, how about you go ahead and post some music from your own native country, and we'll compare it to the music of Cuba. Let's see how it matches up.
That was clearly hyperbole on my part. Cuban music is too European to be the "most African". It has very strong African influences, but also very strong Spanish, and other European and Mediterranean influences, however. It doesn't have to be a case of having one or the other(European or African), so I don't know what you mean by this "Afro/Euro continuum". Afro-Cuban music is both more European and African than Black American music, as a matter of fact. And don't forget that most popular forms of American music (post-Jazz), including Hip-Hop and RnB, owe a debt to that "Spanish Tinge" of Afro-Cuban music.
I don't have have any hatred or ill-will towards African Americans. Just because I criticize some of them for their hypocrisy and lack of character doesn't mean I hate all of them. Do you hate all these groups you're constantly criticizing in here. What kind of messed up logic is that? I very much like African-American music, as a matter of fact. If it wasn't for them I think the music scene in the US would be pretty boring and uninteresting. African-Americans have definitely had a great deal of influence in the world of pop culture unlike any other group in history.
Why don't you just rep your country? You keep mentioning the Caribbean/West Indies, but you never say anything specific about Guyana in here. All I know about that country is that there's alot of Indian people over there, that's it. Nothing else comes to mind. How about you show me some music from Guayana? Let's see how it compares to Cuban music.
Good for you. I've never been to Africa. What countries have you been to specifically? Africa is a pretty big place.
Meh, New Orleans is a bit complex. The blacks that developed in New Orleans technically were not African Americans. New Orleans was colonized in a region that was a colony of Spain, then France, and then Spain again. And it traded with and transmitted ideas and cultural synthesis based on that of Spain and France.
I wouldn't apply the label of African Americans to those of New Orleans. The culture and feel is different from the 13 original colonies states and regions. New Orleans is like a Latin American city. Spanish, French, Creoles and other Latin based dialects are still spoken in and used as part of the overall culture and vernacular of New Orleans, and Louisiana in general. It extenda to many other deep south states like Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida etc.
Put it this way, imagine if Veracruz or the Atlantic coast of Mexico was annexed to the USA. Since this is one area of Mexico that has a significant or notable Afrodescent or Afro-Mexican presence, would you view or consider these people to be African Americans, if their lands were annexed to the USA?
There is no one AA experience. New Orleans was a unique kind, just as the Mississippi Delta was another, and many others also exist. I invite you to tell all those multiple genres of jazz musicians as well as the Mardi Gras Indians that they aren't AA. Indeed much of AA musical traditions were born in N/O.
I am fully familiar with the genres of AfroCuban music that Fania plays. I am also aware that they do not play the REAL rumba that one can find sometimes in Central Park in the summer when the cops don't drive the drummers away. And you may not know this but very few Caribbean musical cultures do not have an explicitly African influence, yes many with less explicitly Euro influences that you cite in the genre that Fania played.
While it has African influences to say that its the most African music in the Americas as a joke. Glad that you now pace it within a Euro/Afro continuum, indeed even further towards the Euro than even merengue is. A sub Saharan African will see Fania music as being only slightly more African than the R&B/hip hop which they eagerly consume. I
You have your hatred of AAs and every thing to do with them so I will not waste time in ranting about which music is better. I will leave it with the notion that AA music DOMINATES the world and is quite popular among Latin musicians who do not exhibit the hatreds that you do.
Sorry. I am born in Guyana and arrived in the USA as a 25 y/o so my attitudes were formed prior to arrival in the USA. So your attempts to discredit me by putting me within what you consider to be a debased context in which you place AAs is completely irrelevant.
I must say that you do not seem to know much about the rest of the Caribbean. Learn more about it before you make claims about Fania music being the most African (popular) music in the Americas.
By the way I have been to several African nations. Have you?
New Orleanians don't necessarily identify as African American, at least not all. New Orleans has a Latin culture. It's more akin to Latin American cities than anything else.
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