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Old 02-28-2014, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,069 posts, read 6,967,098 times
Reputation: 5654

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What basic, day-to-day liberties or human rights have the common working class people of Venezuela lost since Chavez came to power? The only people I see losing liberty are the fabulously wealthy who sold out to American corporations for decades, while stealing all they could from the abjectly poor underclass. Good of you to point out the people who stand up against corporate will are victimized in the Latin American cultural tradition, which only Chavez dared to stand up against.

Give us some examples of systematic reduction of the human rights of the working class Venezuelans, not just the personal opinions of a few who were rich enough to emigrate to Miami and complain about losing their family fortune and privilege.

"In 2004, Chávez and his legislative allies conducted a political takeover of the Supreme Court, filling it with government supporters and creating new measures that make it possible to purge justices from the court. The court—re-packed with Chávez supporters in 2010—has largely abdicated its role as a check on executive power. Its members have openly rejected the principle of separation of powers and publicly pledged their commitment to advancing the political agenda of President Chávez. This political commitment has been reflected in the court’s rulings, which have repeatedly validated the government’s disregard for international human rights norms.

Individual judges may face reprisals if they rule against government interests. In December 2009, Judge María Lourdes Afiuni was detained on the day she authorized the conditional release of a government critic who had spent nearly three years in prison awaiting trial on corruption charges. Although Afiuni’s ruling complied with a recommendation by United Nations human rights monitors—and was consistent with Venezuelan law—she was promptly arrested. A provisional judge who had publicly pledged his loyalty to President Chávez ordered her to stand trial. The day after her arrest, Chávez publicly branded Afiuni a “bandit” who should receive the maximum 30 years in prison.

Laws contributing to a climate of self-censorship include amendments to the criminal code in 2005 extending the scope of desacato laws that criminalize disrespect of high government officials, and a broadcasting statute allowing arbitrary suspension of channels for the vaguely defined offense of “incitement.In December 2010, the National Assembly broadened this statute to include the internet. Amendments to the telecommunications law grant the government power to suspend or revoke concessions to private outlets if it is “convenient for the interests of the nation.

In April 2008, Chávez’s administration issued a decree that established a new national police force and enacted measures to promote non-abusive policing proposed by a commission comprised of government and NGO representatives. There had been no independent evaluation of the new police force’s performance.

Venezuela has increasingly rejected international monitoring of its human rights record, rejecting binding rulings of the Inter-American Court of Human Rights (IACtHR) and refusing to allow the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) to conduct in-country monitoring of human rights problems. In September 2012, Venezuela formally announced its withdrawal from the American Convention on Human Rights.

In March 2012, the UN Human Rights Council (HRC) adopted the Universal Periodic Review (UPR) report of Venezuela. The government has rejected several key recommendations aimed at protecting free speech, strengthening judicial independence, complying with the IACtHR’sbinding rulings, and supporting the independent work of NGOs. At this writing, the government had yet to authorize in-country visits by several UN human rights experts.

World Report 2013: Venezuela | Human Rights Watch
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 30,922,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What basic, day-to-day liberties or human rights have the common working class people of Venezuela lost since Chavez came to power? The only people I see losing liberty are the fabulously wealthy who sold out to American corporations for decades, while stealing all they could from the abjectly poor underclass. Good of you to point out the people who stand up against corporate will are victimized in the Latin American cultural tradition, which only Chavez dared to stand up against.

Give us some examples of systematic reduction of the human rights of the working class Venezuelans, not just the personal opinions of a few who were rich enough to emigrate to Miami and complain about losing their family fortune and privilege.
I don't give examples of opinions of a few expats in Miami. The people I communicate with on a daily basis live IN Venezuela. They don't come to the United States, that's where they are now. The girl I dated was here for a while, but it was temporary and her family stayed in Venezuela.

To give an example, my ex-gf was a journalist there in Venezuela. She knows a person who was killed for making news against Chavez. Another place she worked for was shut down by Chavez because they were giving him bad press. The people there are getting paid by the government to put out a certain word or follow a certain path.. but it's a forced view and if they go away from that one view they have some serious problems.

She comes from a middle class working family that's being affected by Chavez. I give you this example so you stop talking about the rich and elite. It's not the case. I know you want, really bad to somehow spin this against the US like you do with almost every other issue.. but it's not really the case here. People have it really bad.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,069 posts, read 6,967,098 times
Reputation: 5654
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What basic, day-to-day liberties or human rights have the common working class people of Venezuela lost since Chavez came to power? The only people I see losing liberty are the fabulously wealthy who sold out to American corporations for decades, while stealing all they could from the abjectly poor underclass. Good of you to point out the people who stand up against corporate will are victimized in the Latin American cultural tradition, which only Chavez dared to stand up against.

Give us some examples of systematic reduction of the human rights of the working class Venezuelans, not just the personal opinions of a few who were rich enough to emigrate to Miami and complain about losing their family fortune and privilege.
I will give you one anyway. I actually know the other side of the coin. I know a businessman who became extremely rich for supporting Chavez while he was transitioning to power. He is now an "oil magnate" and he is living the good life here in Miami buying properties worth millions of dollars, and doing business with well known Miami millionaires and celebrities who constantly speak about human right violations in Cuba on TV. And there they are doing business with Chavistas. Chavez and Maduro didn't seem mind either that their allies are investing the money the gave them here in the US.

This is where I give some credit to Alex Jones who said once that the left and the right play for the same team. The only thing the average citizen can do is protect their rights and for that they need a system of check and balances. The problem with some Latin American countries is that they tend to extend the power of the military, police and executive branch and limit the judiciary. It's not like the right doesn't do the same thing, Uribe and Santos are no saints either. But what is going on in Venezuela is just over the top and the crime numbers are reflecting the corruption. When people can't trust the police or the government they will take justice into their own hands. When the police and military actions are not questioned they will kill civilians just because someone gave them a dirty look or worse because they get paid for meeting a quota. Limiting the judiciary branch powers and the freedom of speech is never a good thing because eventually no one can speak up against the current government and power always corrupts people.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:54 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,800 posts, read 10,104,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What basic, day-to-day liberties or human rights have the common working class people of Venezuela lost since Chavez came to power? The only people I see losing liberty are the fabulously wealthy who sold out to American corporations for decades, while stealing all they could from the abjectly poor underclass. Good of you to point out the people who stand up against corporate will are victimized in the Latin American cultural tradition, which only Chavez dared to stand up against.

Give us some examples of systematic reduction of the human rights of the working class Venezuelans, not just the personal opinions of a few who were rich enough to emigrate to Miami and complain about losing their family fortune and privilege.
You truly are delusional. Why don't you move there if he and Maduro are such saints?
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
10,060 posts, read 12,803,961 times
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A large number of Venezuelan Jews have left the country due to "Chavismo".

Jews of Venezuela, the new Diaspora | JPost | Israel News
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:30 AM
 
31 posts, read 35,269 times
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Voldemort, Cuba and Venezuelan Politics: Voldemort, Cuba and Venezuelan Politics

Different take, which is interesting in light of Maduro moving missiles pointing to US, Russian warship in Havana, Russia's stayed intent too one up military basis in Nicaragua and Venezuela and today's events in Ukraine.

I think we are all being plyed by fools by Putin.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:45 PM
 
334 posts, read 454,484 times
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So sad what is going on. I don't know why this is not getting much media attention in mainstream media. It would be nice if more people were aware of the turmoil and crisis and civil strife and struggles that Venezuela was/is ensconced in.

Interestingly enough many middle class, upper class, and wealthy and elite Venezuelans have been fleeing to the Republic of Panama and even calling themselves refugees or in exile, in the same manner that Cubans against Castro have lived in exile in Miami, Florida. Venezuelan lobbyists and powers and interests among these new Venezuelan exiles to Panama is quite strong.

It will be interesting to see what is in store and where Venezuela is headed in the near future. Things are not looking to good.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:02 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,800 posts, read 10,104,013 times
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Sadly this seems to have slipped off the news with all the focus on the missing Malaysian Airlines plane and the Russian invasion of Crimea

I did read the other day that the "Bolivarian National Guard" dismantled a campsite in a square that was a big rallying site for the protesters. As I suspected, Maduro would crack down hard and the protests would ebb

I still have my hopes for a truly democratic Venezuela ... maybe some day.
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:38 PM
 
1,980 posts, read 3,771,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
The problem is not that they have a leftist government, but that they are not leftist enough.
So they would have run out of toilet paper and food years earlier? Leftism, whether it is communism, fascism, or socialism always fails and hurts the poor and middle class the most.

Hugo Chavez died a billionaire.....
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Old 03-21-2014, 01:45 PM
 
1,980 posts, read 3,771,062 times
Reputation: 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What basic, day-to-day liberties or human rights have the common working class people of Venezuela lost since Chavez came to power? The only people I see losing liberty are the fabulously wealthy who sold out to American corporations for decades, while stealing all they could from the abjectly poor underclass. Good of you to point out the people who stand up against corporate will are victimized in the Latin American cultural tradition, which only Chavez dared to stand up against.

Give us some examples of systematic reduction of the human rights of the working class Venezuelans, not just the personal opinions of a few who were rich enough to emigrate to Miami and complain about losing their family fortune and privilege.
Chavez died a billionaire, killed the free press, lowered the quality of life for everyone but the corrupt elite, oversaw sky high murder rates, wrecked the economy to the point where there were toilet paper shortages.

The Chavez/Maduro fascist kleptocracy has been nothing short of a catastrophic failure.
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