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I have also heard of the "Baby Daddy" thing among West Indians also.
I deliberately mentioned this because the same word is used to describe the same phenomenon and the impacts of that on family structure, now that the extended family has weakened (both among Caribbean and American blacks) is equally damaging. the only difference is it will be "baby faddah" and "baby muddah", given our creole English.
We were both brought over from West and Central Africa. Yes different regions probably (more Ghana peoples in the Caribbean and fewer Senegambia/Guinea when compared to American blacks). Enslaved by the same white men. Ever wonder why Caribbean and American blacks in NYC have the same last names and that these names are seen in NYC as "black" names. Well one cousin went to whip blacks in Barbados and the other whipped black backs in Virginia. And alongside both sets of blacks were Celtic types also getting whipped, hence certain "Irish" elements visible in both cultures, souse being one of them.
Yes there are differences due largely to the fact that blacks are dominant in the Caribbean so Jim Crow wouldn't have worked. Yes also the pattern of slavery in the Caribbean was different so on emancipation more people who were either born in Africa or had parents who were existed and so more Africanisms have survived.
But the notion that we are these two distinct peoples who cannot understand one another is nonsense. In fact the biggest difference is that Caribbean blacks arrived in the USA as voluntary immigrants so view the USA as a land of opportunity, something that many American blacks just see as being a problematic attitude given their history in this country.
As an AA, let me break this down and give my opinion, "The Frenzy" style as WEB Dubois called it, "The Jump" or the "Holy
Dance" as we call it. These things originated in the black folk culture of the Mississippi Delta, read some of the works of
Nora Neale Hurston, this can be traced back to the Ring Shout done in the Brush Harbors and Praise Houses on the plantations, This Ring Shout is based on the dances of various African cultures of the people who were brought over, they may be vague but they are NOT European in origin.
As far as the "Sing-Speak style" of many AA preachers with the organ playing what the man is saying, the melody sounds
like the Blues melody which in turn has an uncanny resemblance to the melody of priests chanting in Senegal or Dahomey,
at least to my ears was shocking.
Other research suggested that it is possible that the structure in the AA Pentecostal church MIGHT BE based on Akan
structure. The local Church Mother is important with an ALMOST as powerful role as the Pastor, the State Mother spiritual
mother to the Bishop and the National Mother, the spiritual mother to the Chief Apostle.
It was suggested that this structure MIGHT correspond to the role of the King and the Queen Mother in various African
Kingdoms. So while you cannot trace SPECIFICS in AA culture like in the Caribbean, there is a collective African memory
embedded, in the deep recesses of AA culture. In AA slang, "Cat" can mean "Cat" or or "Cat" can mean "Man" in Wolof,
the word in their language has the SAME double meaning, coincidence? or "Bad" can mean "Bad" or "Bad" can mean "Good"
All of this sounds like Afrocentrist rhetoric made by people with no real knowledge of anything in Africa, but the bottom line is no one here seems to be able to give me a specific nation or country these practices allegedly originate from.
As for AA slang, I've never heard anyone use cat for anything except a cat, a four letter animal that meows. I think in older films I might have seen AA men refer to guys as cat, but I've never met anyone in person who talks like this.
I deliberately mentioned this because the same word is used to describe the same phenomenon and the impacts of that on family structure, now that the extended family has weakened (both among Caribbean and American blacks) is equally damaging. the only difference is it will be "baby faddah" and "baby muddah", given our creole English.
We were both brought over from West and Central Africa. Yes different regions probably (more Ghana peoples in the Caribbean and fewer Senegambia/Guinea when compared to American blacks). Enslaved by the same white men. Ever wonder why Caribbean and American blacks in NYC have the same last names and that these names are seen in NYC as "black" names. Well one cousin went to whip blacks in Barbados and the other whipped black backs in Virginia. And alongside both sets of blacks were Celtic types also getting whipped, hence certain "Irish" elements visible in both cultures, souse being one of them.
Yes there are differences due largely to the fact that blacks are dominant in the Caribbean so Jim Crow wouldn't have worked. Yes also the pattern of slavery in the Caribbean was different so on emancipation more people who were either born in Africa or had parents who were existed and so more Africanisms have survived.
But the notion that we are these two distinct peoples who cannot understand one another is nonsense. In fact the biggest difference is that Caribbean blacks arrived in the USA as voluntary immigrants so view the USA as a land of opportunity, something that many American blacks just see as being a problematic attitude given their history in this country.
Never knew that, so THAT solves the mystery of Souse Meat.
More related to topic, a Jamaican friend was angry about a crime committed in a nearby neighborhood and
she spoke about "mustering up so much iron" on the criminal who did it and said to me "you know what I mean?" I was thinking a 357. She clarified and meant going to an Obeah. I said, "Oh you mean to "throw"
on someone, that is what we say" "Going to a Root-Worker".
I have to admit, I have had VERY LIMITED exposure to Caribbean people, more exposure to SL people due to having lived with them for 2 years. Didn't meet them until I started working and connecting with my NYC side of the family.
I deliberately mentioned this because the same word is used to describe the same phenomenon and the impacts of that on family structure, now that the extended family has weakened (both among Caribbean and American blacks) is equally damaging. the only difference is it will be "baby faddah" and "baby muddah", given our creole English.
We were both brought over from West and Central Africa. Yes different regions probably (more Ghana peoples in the Caribbean and fewer Senegambia/Guinea when compared to American blacks). Enslaved by the same white men. Ever wonder why Caribbean and American blacks in NYC have the same last names and that these names are seen in NYC as "black" names. Well one cousin went to whip blacks in Barbados and the other whipped black backs in Virginia. And alongside both sets of blacks were Celtic types also getting whipped, hence certain "Irish" elements visible in both cultures, souse being one of them.
Yes there are differences due largely to the fact that blacks are dominant in the Caribbean so Jim Crow wouldn't have worked. Yes also the pattern of slavery in the Caribbean was different so on emancipation more people who were either born in Africa or had parents who were existed and so more Africanisms have survived.
But the notion that we are these two distinct peoples who cannot understand one another is nonsense. In fact the biggest difference is that Caribbean blacks arrived in the USA as voluntary immigrants so view the USA as a land of opportunity, something that many American blacks just see as being a problematic attitude given their history in this country.
Overall I agree, with the exception the last names. There certainly is overlap with British/Irish names but Afro-Caribbean also bear plenty French, Spanish, Portuguese, Danish, East Indian, Chinese and other surnames.
I've never said Caribbean Blacks and American Blacks in NYC don't have children together or often live in the same neighborhoods. I don't know where you get this from. Some of my relatives have parents from the Caribbean (Trinidad and the Dominican Republic).
I have said there are substantial cultural differences between them.
The worship of Shango can be traced to particular nations and regions in Africa. Something like rhythmic speech patterns of pastors isn't so easily traceable. African is not a country.
Haitan Voodoo, for example originated in Dahomey. Cuban Santeria and Brazilian Candomble can be traced to the Yoruba people. Palo Mayombe can be traced to the Congo.
But certain practices among African Americans are so vague and ill defined (such as the speech of pastors). Please tell me the tradition it originated from, since you claim it is "African".
Louisiana Voodoo has roots in the Fon people's religion along with Catholic, Native American, Wolof, Yoruba and Kongo influences. Please do research on your culture.
Overall I agree, with the exception the last names. There certainly is overlap with British/Irish names but Afro-Caribbean also bear plenty French, Spanish, Portuguese, Danish, East Indian, Chinese and other surnames.
the VAST majority of people in the English speaking Caribbean have British names. French names come second due to the French influence of some of the Anglophone Caribbean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
All of this sounds like Afrocentrist rhetoric made by people with no real knowledge of anything in Africa, but the bottom line is no one here seems to be able to give me a specific nation or country these practices allegedly originate from.
As for AA slang, I've never heard anyone use cat for anything except a cat, a four letter animal that meows. I think in older films I might have seen AA men refer to guys as cat, but I've never met anyone in person who talks like this.
Louisiana Voodoo has roots in the Fon people's religion along with Catholic, Native American, Wolof, Yoruba and Kongo influences. Please do research on your culture.
Also, have you ever been to a Pentecostal church?
I did not grow up in Lousiana, so please tell me how Louisiana Voodoo is my culture?
This is why I dismissed the comments of the non African Americans here. Most African Americans do not live in, or have ties to Lousiana. I don't need to do "research" on African American culture, and a big part of the misinformation here is that some of you apparently really only know about what you've read. But a book, or multiple books only present a part of the picture and not THE picture. And of course there's such a thing as writer bias.
the VAST majority of people in the English speaking Caribbean have British names. French names come second due to the French influence of some of the Anglophone Caribbean.
Where you raised by African Americans?
Very much so. Keep in mind not all African Americans share the same experience or prospectives, despite the tendency of people to group either AAs or Blacks in general together as the BORG.
Among African Americans in general, this may hurt Afrocentrists but they do not really have preserved elements of various African cultures like you do in Latin America or the Caribbean, and nothing such as a well developed African based religion.
There is nothing like the orishas in the southern US, unless you count Florida which has a lot of Latin American and Caribbean immigrants.
the VAST majority of people in the English speaking Caribbean have British names. French names come second due to the French influence of some of the Anglophone Caribbean.
Where you raised by African Americans?
It seems that people are generalizing about African American culture. Are there not regional/state differences. Also what I totally don't get about even the term African American is that is seems to suddenly lump in all people that may be considered "black", but maybe from totally different heritages. It is the entire melting pot situation ... which is odd. It almost seems to high light the idea that being a certain skin colour makes you a certain way ex you eat, think, believe or do things a certain way ... which is not true. It seems contradictory.
I actually really liked when Raven Symone comments on this topic...
Self included the ongoing need for people to actually have to label themselves and not be taken for who they are as a person is annoying and exhausting.
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