Best places to live in Argentina (tourist, similar, atmosphere)

[jja100]

Originally Posted by DBCC

Nope not an Argentine. I am a South African. We pay Municipal, State and national Taxes on properties. there are two values. Real value (in U$ - what you can sell it for) and Fiscal Value. the fiscal value is surprisingly low and one could never even consider the ridiculously low amount that the state values your property. It is the fiscal value that is the evaluation medium for your taxes.

Land taxes have to be paid every year, and I have heard that if one does default on paying them, then one can negotiate with the "Rentas/AFIP" to pay in installments the amount due.

I have had properties in Argentina for 25 years. On none of them have I ever paid a "foreigner tax" In fact, I was benefited greatly when I bought farms here in the 80's and got all sorts of tax breaks for making the investments I made. At the same time, managed to get telephone and three phase electricity installed on the farms without the normal delays, reason being that I was going to give employment to Argentines and was a benefit to the community.

When you purchase a property in Argentina, you will ahve to go to a notary public who ensures there are no liens against the property/ taxes overdue, and all is above board. I do not trust the Notary public and have the contract/deed of sale/purchase reviewed by my lawyers. Lawyers know the laws, Notary publics do the legal aspects but in no way protect your interests and may favour the seller. Get a good lawyer to revise everything before committing yourself.
A DNI can be obtained. You will ahve to initiate emigration proceedings in your home country. It can take many years if you do it internally, and you will always be missing a paper that they can invent. It is far more streamlined to do it from overseas, takes less time, and you will arrive in Argentina with your DNI in your hand as a legal resident, although it will say that you are an "extranjero" or foreigner.

A word of advice on selling property. It is common in Argentina to have a verbally agreed price which is paid from buyer to seller. This may be different to the value stated in the title deed and signed before the Notary Public after being reviewed by a lawyer. You will get, as part of the paperwork in the Natary public's offices, a Fiscal value of the property, which will be less than a third of what shows in the Title deed. Confusing , isn't it? That is the way things are done here.

Thanks for all that info. I got my info from apartmentsba.com. He has info regarding the buying process. I am not sure if buying in the city is significantly different than buying land and homes because according to Michael Koh, there are two taxes on property.... the property tax (ABL) which is only a couple hundred dollars a year and an actual "wealth tax" where the value is assessed at purchase value and 1.25% is due on that value at the end of every year except that this tax is not sent in the mail and people with DNI numbers typically don't pay it since there are non foreclosures in Argentina and people live their whole lives in the same home.

[DBCC]

Never, ever, heard of a "foreigner tax" on anything I have purchased in Argentina. I believe someone may be pulling the wool over your eyes, or trying to.

Properties do have a wealth tax clause over a certain value. But this is on the Fiscal value and not what you arrange/decide to sell/but it for. This is what one pays at "Rentas" and is a yearly tax - not a great deal of money for an average home. Paying it in advance obtains discounts or the waiver of 1 or 2 of the monthly payments. Pretty reasonable rates.

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by DBCC

Oops: If you own your own home, have your own car, paying utilities, a staff member to come in and clean, food for 4 people, plus two nights out a week for dinner or ordering out, and depending on your whims and fantasies on how you budget...... one could live comfortably on US$3500 per month.
Public schools are free. Public Universities are free to residents. Private education can be costly. My kids went to Public schools and all have University degrees that they obtained later on in the USA.
Of course, this would only apply if you are cautious. If you are a big spender, the sky is the limit. It is better to purchase an average car/average home in all of South America. Do not attract attention or be ostentatious or this will bring you problems....try to fit in.

Sorry for the late reply, just back from a trip. Just to clarify, did you mean Argentine Pesos per that $3500 number? I'll have around $1100 a month U.S. from 55 to 62 when our government pension, Social Security, starts. Plus a little savings.

So far I only know what I've read and the towns I mentioned sound pretty good in the tour guides. I've read that using bicycles for local transportation is very popular in San Rafael. Apparently more so than other towns as I've read it several times on the internet. San Luis is only slightly farther from Mendoza than San Rafael but as it's more centrally located it caught my attention. San Rafael seems to have gotten alot of notice lately with the people who promote overseas real estate which concerns me a bit. So I thought San Luis might be an alternative to look at just in case. One other plus for San Luis is it appears to have a bigger multiplex theater than other towns it's size. 8 screens to San Rafael's 3. Sorry, really enjoy going to the movies, LOL!

Ran across some good info about Necochea on the coast. Has a 74 km beach and supposedly the best waves in Argentina. It has a good size at 89,000 people. After seeing pictures of people packed like sardines on the beach at Mar del Plata I haven't been considering the coast but Necochea looks nice.

Thanks for the guidebook tip. I've purchased the Lonely Planet, Rough Guide, Moon, Fodor's, Insight, and Frommer's. Those plus the 'net help but none have provided the information you have. Thanks again!

[DBCC]

Vantexan: At the current exchange rate (today) you will have your 1.00 U$ at ARG$3.86.
Bicycles are fine for San Rafael. As I said ref San Luis, the only attraction there for me would be Merlo or the tourist region just outside the city. I find nothing else about it attractive, although that is a personal opinion. I have been there many times en route to the south and west, and despite spending a couple of nights there, do not find it enchanting at all, compared to San Rafael or Mendoza city.
There are a lot of people promoting real estate on the web. Cautious buyers come here and eal direct. The majority of people on the net are asking for prices that are directed at the international price market. Local prices can be very different dealing direct with seller/real estate agent.
Mendoza city has some great Malls with movie theatres. I dont think that the articles you are reading are that up-to-date with information.
Necochea is a beautiful place - in the summer months. I have yet to find a winter beach resort that is comfortable to live in during the winter months if you are a beach person. High winds, low temperatures, and the infrastructure changes between Tourist and non - tourist periods. I am a beach person myself and have been looking for a beach area (outside of the tourist period) that is attractive year round. I am still looking.

Further south there is a place near Commodoro Rivadavia that has a beach resort/ Vacation homes called Rada Tilley. This is a beautiful area and is somewhat protected from the elements, and it probably where I would consider living on a beach in Argentina.

Don't also forget that there are Omnibus services /flights at extremely reasonable rates to Brazil (i.e. Florianapolis) year round. Beautiful beaches, beautiful people, great rates, and a worth while area to travel to.

As in many of the prime tourist cities in Argentina in the principal resort areas (as is where I am currently living) things tend to become 20% more expensive in season than they are the remainder of the year. For us it is easier to travel 30 miles to the city to obtain normal prices in foodstuffs than buy locally during summer season. Many new businesses appear at the beginning of each summer season, and disappear at the end.
Another personal opinion was the Pirelli Guide. It is more updated, offers comments from different travellers, and critiques of restaurants/hotels/businesses etc. It has been very helpful to me personally in my travels in Argentina. I have also purchased the Bolivia/Peru/Chile guides from the same editor and have been more than happy with their observations and "free expression" from critiques, ppl praising their services, or out of the way places....
Mar del Plata in summer is a something you have to get used to. One spends 5-6 minutes walking through crowds on the beaches, have to stop two or three times en route to remove molten chewing gum from your feet.......and eventually get to the sea......packed with people. Not my idea of fun. I enjoy the sea, swimming, and getting a wave or two on my bodyboard....not easy to do.

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by DBCC

Vantexan: At the current exchange rate (today) you will have your 1.00 U$ at ARG$3.86.
Bicycles are fine for San Rafael. As I said ref San Luis, the only attraction there for me would be Merlo or the tourist region just outside the city. I find nothing else about it attractive, although that is a personal opinion. I have been there many times en route to the south and west, and despite spending a couple of nights there, do not find it enchanting at all, compared to San Rafael or Mendoza city.
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Oh believe me San Luis(the city) gets very little promotion in the guides. Plaza Pringles is supposed to be nice but that's the extent of it. I was only asking about it as it's centrally located.

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There are a lot of people promoting real estate on the web. Cautious buyers come here and eal direct. The majority of people on the net are asking for prices that are directed at the international price market. Local prices can be very different dealing direct with seller/real estate agent.
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I mentioned my concern because 2 outfits, International Living and Escape from America are generally credited with promoting Costa Rica and Panama to the point that they are now overrun with American and many other expats. Currently Ecuador is the next great thing but they're also promoting some places in Brazil and San Rafael. I'm concerned that what you find special about San Rafael might get lost if prices greatly rise if thousands of comparatively wealthy people move in.

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Mendoza city has some great Malls with movie theatres. I dont think that the articles you are reading are that up-to-date with information.
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Actually I found that if you Google a city name, then country name and the word movies it'll show the showtimes for that city. Mendoza has plenty of choices but San Rafael only shows a 3 screen theater. There may be other theaters that don't participate but it's been a fairly good indicator so far. I'm assuming greater Mendoza is more expensive than San Rafael or San Luis so I'm looking to live as economically as possible and occassionally visit the nicer places. When Social Security kicks in I'll be in a better position to know which city I prefer and should be able to afford it then.

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Necochea is a beautiful place - in the summer months. I have yet to find a winter beach resort that is comfortable to live in during the winter months if you are a beach person. High winds, low temperatures, and the infrastructure changes between Tourist and non - tourist periods. I am a beach person myself and have been looking for a beach area (outside of the tourist period) that is attractive year round. I am still looking.

Further south there is a place near Commodoro Rivadavia that has a beach resort/ Vacation homes called Rada Tilley. This is a beautiful area and is somewhat protected from the elements, and it probably where I would consider living on a beach in Argentina.

Don't also forget that there are Omnibus services /flights at extremely reasonable rates to Brazil (i.e. Florianapolis) year round. Beautiful beaches, beautiful people, great rates, and a worth while area to travel to.

As in many of the prime tourist cities in Argentina in the principal resort areas (as is where I am currently living) things tend to become 20% more expensive in season than they are the remainder of the year. For us it is easier to travel 30 miles to the city to obtain normal prices in foodstuffs than buy locally during summer season. Many new businesses appear at the beginning of each summer season, and disappear at the end.

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That's extremely good to know and will save me alot of time and frustration! I'm guessing you're in Villa Carlos Paz?

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Another personal opinion was the Pirelli Guide. It is more updated, offers comments from different travellers, and critiques of restaurants/hotels/businesses etc. It has been very helpful to me personally in my travels in Argentina. I have also purchased the Bolivia/Peru/Chile guides from the same editor and have been more than happy with their observations and "free expression" from critiques, ppl praising their services, or out of the way places....
Mar del Plata in summer is a something you have to get used to. One spends 5-6 minutes walking through crowds on the beaches, have to stop two or three times en route to remove molten chewing gum from your feet.......and eventually get to the sea......packed with people. Not my idea of fun. I enjoy the sea, swimming, and getting a wave or two on my bodyboard....not easy to do.

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Not seeing the Pirelli guide on Amazon, I'll check with Barnes & Noble. I visited several B & N's and Borders on vacation and couldn't find it. The one's I mentioned have all been published within the last year, some recently. Lonely Planet is the biggest guide series in the world and several others are highly regarded, especially Rough Guide and Footprint. As far as general descriptions go I'm getting quite a bit with some strong opinions. But I do want to get a Pirelli to get their take on it.

Thanks again and if you have a website I'd appreciate it if you'd PM it to me. And write that book on living in Argentina!

[DBCC]

Great guess..... I am in Carlos Paz. I have may pix on my site. I will PM the details to you. Currently trying to author a novel on Africa during the crisis years 1965-1985. That is taking up a lot of time.
I have a satirical commentary which I have been putting together for years on "Argentina;- Through the eyes of a gringo" which is a satirical view of observations on the way of life in Argentina that is so different to an imported detribalized South African/Zimbabwean who has lived in many 1st world countries.....and still can't manage to fathom some of the things out after 25 years.
Last time I purchased the Pirelli guide at B&N through their online service in 2006. It took a while and I believe was printed in Europe. Pirelli is the tyre manufacturer and also used to give away the guide for the country of your choice as a gift when you bought their tires. I have not bought their tires in a number of years. Once was enough.

[aerocorp1]

Thanks for all the info. We are Americans from South Texas now living in New Zealand who are looking at possibly moving to
Argentina for at least a few years. Seems like Mendoza is a good compromise without the big swings in weather.
Could anyone tell us what to expect to pay for a country house with some acreage for growing food and any other info
that would enlighten us before we visit there? Should we fly to Santiago or to BA. Santiago looks closer.
Charles [email]ch@kiwiwind.co.nz[/email]

[aerocorp1]

Would Mendoza be the place for American couple from Texas now living in New Zealand - not big partiers, just boring
folks looking for safe, clean, inexpensive place to live. Thanks!

[SophieLL]

Mendoza seems like a beautiful, quiet, safe city, though i never been there only been told about this. Its next to the Andes mountains so it haves stunning landscapes. Also, a lot of winerys there, with supposedly one of the finest wines in the world. You are also next to Chile if you want to visit. And the climate in Mendoza is great, sunny and warm year long.

Now the dollars are worth much more than in 2009, nearly 6 pesos. Of course, things are more expensive here, too. But my experience is that interior cities (such as Mendoza) are much more inexpensive than a city like Buenos Aires, in where prices are around the sky. Specially in renting/buying houses, eating out, cinema, etc.

You could google to see the experience of foreingers living in mendoza and how they like it. A quick google search showed me this first, that looks interesting: Living in Mendoza, Argentina

You could read it and google more about expats living in Mendoza and see if its what you are looking for .

Good luck

[slowlane3]

Google the phrase "Expatriates Argentina" and it will lead you to several different websites with information, advice, and blogs about moving to Argentina.