Ann Arbor job market vs. Metro Detroit job market (Wolverine: rent, college)

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by brodie734

I mean, not that you seem to care about statistical data, but UM is now majority out of state so it's dubious to even say it's fed by students from the Detroit area any more.

That was a surprise. I thought they had to stay 50% instate to get State money, but I looked it up and you are right. In fact they are apparently actively recruiting a larger out of state population becuase out of staters pay more. I was disappointed to learn my son is more interested in WSU or GVSU, but I am becoming less certain. Since they are trying to get more people from out of sate, he is not likely to get much of a scholarship there and he may get a full or close to full ride at WSU or GVSU. As I mentioned elsehwere, I am drifting away from my conviction that a student should attend the most highly regarded school they can get into. A decent degree with no debt is probably better than a highly regarded degree with massive debt, especially if you go on to grad school.

[brodie734]

The situation in higher ed is now so dire that I can't blame you for taking that outlook... I used to think that I'd encourage my kid to go to the best school, but then I look at a state like Illinois where in-state cost of attendance at the main UI campus is over $30k a year. It's crazy. Public colleges no longer make much of a pretense of serving their intended purposes anymore. The University of Alabama, to cite a less than elite example, brags in it's marketing materials about how FEW of their students are from in-state (it's like 40%).

In Alabama's case, they are trying to fight funding cuts by transforming themselves into a national brand. They do this by pouring money into recruiting and offering incredibly generous merit aid to kids from places like California and New Jersey... those kids raise the academic standards and also serve as brand ambassadors back home to lure richer and richer kids with stories of pretty campuses and football games. The end goal is to what Michigan does... charge kids as much as a private school to come and get their educations in a novel location like Ann Arbor or Tuscaloosa.

There's been a knock on effect in Michigan since UM switched to the Common App platform in order to make it easier to attract OOS students... the primary beneficiaries have been MSU, GVSU, and UM-Dearborn. All three are seeing record numbers of applications and are becoming more selective as well. A 28 ACT score is now not good enough for UM, so you go to MSU. The 26 is now not a guarantee of MSU so you go to GVSU or UMD.

[craig11152]

The University overall has more in state than out of state. At the post graduate level out of state wins but undergraduate is weighted more heavily to instate. For fall of 2016:

overall
in state: 23,095
out of state: 21,623

Undergrad
in state :16,312
out state: 12,671

post grad
in state: 6783
out of state: 8952





http://www.ro.umich.edu/report/16enrollmentsummary.pdf

[brodie734]

It obviously varies from class to class, but several years ago in state enrollment fell to 48%. It has since gone back up

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by brodie734

The situation in higher ed is now so dire that I can't blame you for taking that outlook... I used to think that I'd encourage my kid to go to the best school, but then I look at a state like Illinois where in-state cost of attendance at the main UI campus is over $30k a year. It's crazy. Public colleges no longer make much of a pretense of serving their intended purposes anymore. The University of Alabama, to cite a less than elite example, brags in it's marketing materials about how FEW of their students are from in-state (it's like 40%).

In Alabama's case, they are trying to fight funding cuts by transforming themselves into a national brand. They do this by pouring money into recruiting and offering incredibly generous merit aid to kids from places like California and New Jersey... those kids raise the academic standards and also serve as brand ambassadors back home to lure richer and richer kids with stories of pretty campuses and football games. The end goal is to what Michigan does... charge kids as much as a private school to come and get their educations in a novel location like Ann Arbor or Tuscaloosa.

There's been a knock on effect in Michigan since UM switched to the Common App platform in order to make it easier to attract OOS students... the primary beneficiaries have been MSU, GVSU, and UM-Dearborn. All three are seeing record numbers of applications and are becoming more selective as well. A 28 ACT score is now not good enough for UM, so you go to MSU. The 26 is now not a guarantee of MSU so you go to GVSU or UMD.

My daughter was admitted to U-M with a 28 (and 3.89/4.0). If they look at the essay, that may have helped her she is an amazing writer. That was a few years ago, s it may be tougher now. She applied late though, and they wait-listed her and then accepted her after she had already started at UMD. She ultimately decided to stay at UMD. Probably a good choice, she got a lot of one on one attention from her professors and got to get some meaningful research experience.

28 or even a 30 ACT does not get you in to any Michigan school anymore. They switched to SAT.

I do not know what score they look for, but my son said his goal is north of 1400 and if he does not get at least 1290 he will probably re-take it, so I would guess that is the range for good chances of entry to U-M or MSU or a good scholarship to GVSU or WSU. He is actually more interested in WSU or GVSU, but he wants to have all options open.

The cost difference for in state tuition is not all that dramatic. the bigger difference is the big scholarships you can get at GVSU or WSU with good grades and test scores compared to little or nothing at U-M or MSU. He was told he is already pretty much guaranteed +/- $6500 a year at GVSU. That alone drops tuition to somewhere around $3000. If he does well on the tests, it could drop to nothing. I would expect he will get scholarship offers for Trumpet as well - likely anywhere he goes if they have trumpet scholarships. however at U-M or MSU it would probably require him to be in marching band and he hates marching band.

[brodie734]

You can still be admitted with your ACT scores. I would strongly suggest taking both, only the SAT is required by the state but colleges will take your higher score regardless and I thought the ACT was easier.

Michigan went to the Common App platform in either 2011 or 2012 and it immediately made it much harder to get in... when a school wants a 30 ACT (this is around a 1350 on the SAT) as a starting point, merit aid becomes almost impossible. Your son might actually be better off looking at private schools, depending on where fall in terms of income. You can attend many of them for more or less nothing after grants are factored in.

[Coldjensens]

My son took both, but he did not put any effort into the ACT and had trouble with it (did not finish 21 questions). Needless to say he was disappointed with the results. He did put effort into the SAT and he said it was easy compared to the ACT, it will be interesting to see how he does.

He has a friend who scored 1590 on SAT and 36 on ACT. Guess he is going anywhere he wants. I think that is part of what is driving my son, he wants to be comparable to his friend. However his friend was trained for the tests since he was about 8.

I think that may say something for parents who are primarily concerned with their kid getting into any college he wants and getting scholarships. Train them for the tests and start early.

[mgkeith]

Oh, no no no no, not so much test training! Let them be children and find and enjoy their interests. That helps with future career prospects, too, in many ways. There is certainly a lot more to life than getting into a tip-top school, such as knowing what direction you want to go into, being self-sufficient and self-directed, and knowing that you don't have a blank-load of pressure from parents at home. Kids who are high achievers often put too much pressure on themselves as it is.

[EastBoundandDownChick]

So I decided finally that I'm taking the plunge and leaving NYC in August. I was able to reconnect with an old friend from college that lives in a 1850s farmhouse on the north side of town, by the Barton Nature Area who is going to rent out to me while I navigate things and find my own place. It's pretty cool, he works with local nearby businesses and is really into organic/sustainable farming practices. And my rent is only $500 a month, which, coming from Manhattan feels like living for free. Plus, free use of the kayaks :-) I figure late summer is the time to get set up as that's when obviously the town repopulates itself for the fall semester at U of M. So at work I'll be walking into peak season.

I actually really liked it out there the few times I've been to visit recently. I am in no way expecting 'Manhattan on the Huron' LOL... and at first I'll admit it DID take time to get used to the sheer smallness of the place, also some of the streets and sidewalks being in pretty wacky condition. But I LOVE the restaurant and bar scene downtown... I'm not that picky (okay, a LITTLE, but not terrible) and felt there were more than enough options to accommodate someone like me. Actually, I was really impressed with the variety and level of quality for a Midwestern town... a pleasant surprise. The plethora of grocery options is also nice. I also like that the city is easily walkable, that was high on my list as I'm someone who likes to get around on foot and bike when possible. I looked into it and now know that if I need my big city fix I can just hop a bus and do Chicago for the weekend easily, no need to put miles on the car. I don't consider a 6 hour bus ride that bad if I do a long weekend.

I think if my parents were in a more immediately dire situation I'd consider moving closer to them. But they are both still in decent health, independent, and I'm only going to be an hour away in a rental... not tied down in a mortgage. In a way it'll be tough leave NYC (a little bit of culture shock + leaving good people). But I've found Ann Arbor's list of pros, proximity to family being number one... outweigh my own personal list in Manhattan. For me, being able to reconnect with nature was like the breath of proverbial fresh air my life has been missing. The parks and nature system are absolutely beautiful, the Art Fair and music scene both seem like things I'll be getting into... oh yes and Hash Bash hahaha. I have my patchouli scented hippie gear and Birkenstocks ready for that one! Honestly, I'm pretty excited about this!

[MI-Roger]

Your anticipated commute time is highly excessive. We live in Ypsilanti (close to Ann Arbor), our son lives in Royal Oak (close to Sterling Heights) and except for afternoon rush-hour, the commute time is approximately 45 minutes.

I have lived in Michigan my entire life and the roads in Michigan do suck. This will not change until truck weight limits are imposed and enforced. Probably the same time as Hell freezes over.

The scenery between Detroit and the Washtenaw County/Wayne County line is some of the ugliest in the nation. I-94 used to be called the Detroit Industrial Freeway for a reason.

Rochester Hills is gorgeous but the area is served by only one road. Far too much traffic congestion for me.

Politically, Ann Arbor is a strange town. The city has a very liberal reputation based on the view point of the UofM students. Excluding the students, the town is nearly as conservative as West Michigan. My wife and I are both extremely liberal, so we have learned who we can talk to regarding any topic which may have a political bent or view, and who we can't.