Teachers flee Arizona (Apache Junction: 2015, renting, how much)

[Pennies4Penny]

Arizona is already limited in it's resources when it comes to education. Soon there won't be anyone left to teach!


Why teachers are fleeing Arizona in droves - The Washington Post

[stevek64]

I'm surprised they didn't mention what many teachers around the nation say in that they've often become nothing more than babysitters.

[fluffythewondercat]

Originally Posted by Pennies4Penny

Arizona is already limited in it's resources when it comes to education. Soon there won't be anyone left to teach!


Why teachers are fleeing Arizona in droves - The Washington Post

That is one of the most poorly-written articles I've ever read. Sketchy spelling, terrible grammar, whole sections of it duplicated....

Did they just copy a teacher's union press release?

[jlawrence01]

I love the irony.

Arizona has bad results because it spends so little on education. Therefore, the author thinks that more spending would turn things around.

Washington, DC, the locale "served" by the Washington Post, is always near the top in spending. Yet, despite all the spending, are results that great?? Only if you can send your children to private schools.

[Pennies4Penny]

These answers show why Arizona education will continue to decline . Denial and lack of concern.....

Originally Posted by stevek64

I'm surprised they didn't mention what many teachers around the nation say in that they've often become nothing more than babysitters.

Because I don't think most feel that way. They are tired of all the standardized testing. The way they have to prep for that is pretty boring. They can't be creative and explorative with their kids.

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

That is one of the most poorly-written articles I've ever read. Sketchy spelling, terrible grammar, whole sections of it duplicated....

Did they just copy a teacher's union press release?

I find that people who solely focus on the grammar have nothing relevant to say about the topic. No, it's not a prize worthy written piece, but the facts remain the same.

Originally Posted by jlawrence01

I love the irony.

Arizona has bad results because it spends so little on education. Therefore, the author thinks that more spending would turn things around.

Washington, DC, the locale "served" by the Washington Post, is always near the top in spending. Yet, despite all the spending, are results that great?? Only if you can send your children to private schools.

Then what is the solution? Slicing funds down to the bare minimum clearly isn't working now is it??

And actually MORE funding would help as one reason teachers DO quit is they can not live on their salaries. So boosting their pay WOULD keep a great deal of them from leaving.

Money is not the end-all be-all solution, but it DOES matter and it DOES make a difference

Does Money Matter in Education? | Shanker Institute

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by Pennies4Penny

Because I don't think most feel that way. They are tired of all the standardized testing. The way they have to prep for that is pretty boring. They can't be creative and explorative with their kids.

Most teachers don't feel that way? That's the norm in inner city school districts, of which there are many and growing. I have a nephew who taught in such a district for about a year in another state before getting burned out in his role of babysitter with unruly kids who weren't there to learn. And the teachers have zero power to discipline the kids of course and the "parent(s)" teach them nothing about discipline/stress the importance of education. I have some neighbors who teach at a school in the valley and they tell me the same thing. And so it goes. As for teaching/testing being "boring"? C'mon. We are back to treating symptoms in silly ways and ignoring the larger issue. Lots of life is pretty boring as is the workplace so probably a good lesson to teach kids reality and learn the basics like most of us have done successfully over the decades. Our education system turned out more than a few innovators over the last many decades and we've been a very productive society overall...why should that be different today?

Originally Posted by Pennies4Penny

Then what is the solution? Slicing funds down to the bare minimum clearly isn't working now is it??

And actually MORE funding would help as one reason teachers DO quit is they can not live on their salaries. So boosting their pay WOULD keep a great deal of them from leaving.

Money is not the end-all be-all solution, but it DOES matter and it DOES make a difference

Does Money Matter in Education? | Shanker Institute[/quote]

I'm always skeptical of articles from DC "institutes".

This has been studied into the ground and as a previous poster stated, there's no correlation of spending gobs of money on education and results. Some long term studies for you beyond the beltway:

No matter how much money states spend on education, results stay same | Daily Mail Online

Some of the data above from the dept of education itself.

A non-partisan group:

Throwing Money At Education Isn't Working > Publications > State Budget Solutions

Common sense would dictate money is important, but only to a point. If there's no heat or A/C, the walls are falling down, the desks are broke/kids can't sit down, I'm with the money thing as being an important factor in those cases. But beyond that, you have to realize the agenda of many self-interest groups crying for "more money!!!" all the time, including politicians of course, and who backs them. Always follow the money trail. Parents are the key to success in school and that's where it begins and ends. Kids that have parents who don't stress this/don't care will have kids that won't succeed in school, no matter how much money is thrown at the problem. But it sounds good to many sheep who blindly think money trumps bad parenting. Understand that telling parents to be responsible is not a good strategy for a politician to get elected these days. But throwing money at it? Oh yeah, who's not for that, no matter what the results say. As for AZ schools and teachers salaries and teachers leaving in droves in AZ, if this is truly the case with no teachers falling behind to take up the vacant positions, supply/demand will come to the rescue and pay will go up, just like it does in any industry, and that will attract more teachers.

Bottom line: I think we have a large quality of parent problem in segments of our society, not a quality of teacher problem or "we need more money!" problem as money "ain't" the answer as long term studies show. Ignore at your own risk and for the future of our country.

[jlawrence01]

The Shanked Institute is funded by the American Federation of Teachers and generally opposes most efforts at education reform.

I wonder why they would support higher school funding. (G)

[goolsbyjazz]

This is not a flattering article at all! It's actually somewhat disheartening.

[sandy6879]

Bottom line - teachers in AZ do not get paid enough. I didn't get my teaching license transferred here when we moved because the pay is abysmal and the support is non-existent. There is zero incentive for someone who needs an income to teach in AZ. Let's start by improving teacher salaries - and yes, that would mean more money.

[Pennies4Penny]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Most teachers don't feel that way? That's the norm in inner city school districts, of which there are many and growing. I have a nephew who taught in such a district for about a year in another state before getting burned out in his role of babysitter with unruly kids who weren't there to learn. And the teachers have zero power to discipline the kids of course and the "parent(s)" teach them nothing about discipline/stress the importance of education. I have some neighbors who teach at a school in the valley and they tell me the same thing. And so it goes. As for teaching/testing being "boring"? C'mon. We are back to treating symptoms in silly ways and ignoring the larger issue. Lots of life is pretty boring as is the workplace so probably a good lesson to teach kids reality and learn the basics like most of us have done successfully over the decades. Our education system turned out more than a few innovators over the last many decades and we've been a very productive society overall...why should that be different today?

Does Money Matter in Education? | Shanker Institute

I'm always skeptical of articles from DC "institutes".

This has been studied into the ground and as a previous poster stated, there's no correlation of spending gobs of money on education and results. Some long term studies for you beyond the beltway:

No matter how much money states spend on education, results stay same | Daily Mail Online

Some of the data above from the dept of education itself.

A non-partisan group:

Throwing Money At Education Isn't Working > Publications > State Budget Solutions

Common sense would dictate money is important, but only to a point. If there's no heat or A/C, the walls are falling down, the desks are broke/kids can't sit down, I'm with the money thing as being an important factor in those cases. But beyond that, you have to realize the agenda of many self-interest groups crying for "more money!!!" all the time, including politicians of course, and who backs them. Always follow the money trail. Parents are the key to success in school and that's where it begins and ends. Kids that have parents who don't stress this/don't care will have kids that won't succeed in school, no matter how much money is thrown at the problem. But it sounds good to many sheep who blindly think money trumps bad parenting. Understand that telling parents to be responsible is not a good strategy for a politician to get elected these days. But throwing money at it? Oh yeah, who's not for that, no matter what the results say. As for AZ schools and teachers salaries and teachers leaving in droves in AZ, if this is truly the case with no teachers falling behind to take up the vacant positions, supply/demand will come to the rescue and pay will go up, just like it does in any industry, and that will attract more teachers.

Bottom line: I think we have a large quality of parent problem in segments of our society, not a quality of teacher problem or "we need more money!" problem as money "ain't" the answer as long term studies show. Ignore at your own risk and for the future of our country.

My mom taught at an inner city school in Texas for 4 years. It took more out if her than her cushy suburban school, but she never felt like a babysitter and had many students willing to learn. Part of the problem with inner city/poor children, is that their parents are usually working a lot. Sometimes two jobs a piece just to get by. It's not that they don't want to be more involved with their kids, they just can't because they have to work so much to get to pay their bills and survive.

No one, not even I said that money is the answer to all the problems, but it does matter. It has to be spent properly, but there does have to be money to spend. Books, food, computers and teachers just don't appear out of thin air

Compare this map of spending per pupil by state to the state rankings for schools. The better schools are spending more money per kid (note I did not say the MOST), while the lower ranking schools are spending much less per kid. Yes, there are exceptions to everything, blah blah blah, but the trend is more (smart) spending improves the quality of education. As the first article points out, teachers are leaving Arizona in big part because of their salaries. It is very much worth it to me to spend more money and give them a good raise than it is to have children be taught by a revolving door of substitutes or inexperienced teachers without mentors (experienced coworkers) to guide them.

Here’s how much each state spends on public school students - The Washington Post

2014’s States with the Best and Worst School Systems | WalletHub®

You say you all for spending more if the schools are falling apart (which are pretty low standards for education IMO; my high school in Texas of all places had a language lab, new textbooks regularly, a computer lab, science labs, good art, music and drama programs, strong and varied sports activities, advanced placement programs and college courses for seniors. I grew up in a rural middle class area.) well that is pretty much what is happening. School districts are cutting down to four day school weeks to save money! How does that not hurt the children??

Apache Junction school district going to 4-day week

And your talk of supply and demand is sickening! Rather than pass school funding legislation NOW, you would prefer to let the kids suffer until the state gets to the breaking point and is FORCED to spend more money. How many years will that take? How many thousands of students will graduate lacking the skills to get through college and find that good job?? Arizona's economy will also suffer because of this. The former CEO of Intel and many other companies, regret building a facility here, because of the lack of skilled workers. This is a serious matter and it affects the entire state.

Former Intel CEO: Quality of Arizona education too poor to attract new business - Arizona - EVTNow