Arizona's drought is worsening

[cmist]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

While I appreciate your sarcasm, I don't think anyone is advocating that position. On the other hand, why ration water to the point of closing golf courses with its debilitating impact on recreation and tourism (jobs, taxes, quality of life) when no crisis exists and there remains a reasonable probability that runoff in the Salt system this year will refill reservoirs to the point that water will simply have to be dumped into the riverbed? Golf courses produce economic value - irrigating them is not waste. When supplies are adequate to meet higher economic needs - domestic uses primarily - then irrigation makes sense. Waste is letting water run down the road, letting water run while you brush your teeth, overwatering lawns (or arguably even having lawns), i.e. activities which do not add value to the economy commensurate with the water cost.

Ponderosa, I was messin with ya... I havent done that in awhile.

I understand both sides of the issue, and I know you are a level headed thinker...

As you know, I have a skeptical view of how Phx manages everything from growth to water usage, to the roads. Its a very "live for today" attitude here.

I do have a bit of anxiety that Phx is likely to wait until the last possible second, when its too late to do anything about it, rather than planning ahead to have water in the desert. It will wait for a crisis to seek solutions, while places in other areas preserve water when they have plenty.

Not sure if the crisis point will be in my lifetime or yours, but my sarcasm was not directed at you but the city planners of Phx.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by cmist

Ponderosa, I was messin with ya... I havent done that in awhile.

I understand both sides of the issue, and I know you are a level headed thinker...

As you know, I have a skeptical view of how Phx manages everything from growth to water usage, to the roads. Its a very "live for today" attitude here.

I do have a bit of anxiety that Phx is likely to wait until the last possible second, when its too late to do anything about it, rather than planning ahead to have water in the desert. It will wait for a crisis to seek solutions, while places in other areas preserve water when they have plenty.

Not sure if the crisis point will be in my lifetime or yours, but my sarcasm was not directed at you but the city planners of Phx.

The City of Phoenix does have a drought management plan. It is part of the City codes. Most of the valley cities have similar plans. The governor created a state drought task force in 2003 to draw up local and statewide plans. Contrary to your suspicions, AZ is very aware of the risks and well-prepared to react to a water supply/prolonged drought situation. I think about 90% of the water used in Phoenix now comes from renewable sources which, for now, are in pretty good shape. At this point in time, it would take about 4-5 years of serious drought on the Colorado and Salt River watersheds to force Phoenix to activate its drought measures. Phoenix came off a Stage 1 drought response in 2005.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the necessity for conservation in our lives here.

[123.DieselBenz]

I use Rainlog.org - A Cooperative Rainfall Monitoring Network to report my data, it is also a great way to look around the area and see what others are getting . . . if you have a rain gauge, sign up and start reporting! Zoom in and/or click on a number and get all the data for that location!

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by 123.DieselBenz

I use Rainlog.org - A Cooperative Rainfall Monitoring Network to report my data, it is also a great way to look around the area and see what others are getting . . . if you have a rain gauge, sign up and start reporting! Zoom in and/or click on a number and get all the data for that location!

Yeah, I use rainlog.org too to keep an eye on what is happening near my land down there - as well as the wunderground.com network of private weather stations (even better actually since it provides complete weather data). The e-mail alert feature of rainlog.org is VERY cool though.

Ken

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

On the other hand, why ration water to the point of closing golf courses with its debilitating impact on recreation and tourism (jobs, taxes, quality of life) when no crisis exists and there remains a reasonable probability that runoff in the Salt system this year will refill reservoirs to the point that water will simply have to be dumped into the riverbed?

I'm guessing you're referring to the predictions that El Niño will deliver a wet winter to Arizona. Don't always believe what you hear. The winter of 2006-2007 was an El Niño season, and the predicitons were for above normal precipitation then too ... but what we actually received was a rather dry winter. We can generalize and say that El Niño means a wetter weather pattern, but that's not always accurate. If the jet stream steers all the El Niño generated storms away from the SW, we are bascially screwed.

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Waste is letting water run down the road, letting water run while you brush your teeth, overwatering lawns (or arguably even having lawns), i.e. activities which do not add value to the economy commensurate with the water cost.

Agreed on all points, except the statement about having lawns. The only thing the grassless/crushed rock "lawns" do is save on water. Otherwise, they are ugly, and add nothing of value to the aesthetics of a home, a street, or a neighborhood. They also add heat, and are a contributor to the heat island effect. As far as that goes, they are really no better than concrete or asphalt.

[Boompa]

It's raining here

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Agreed on all points, except the statement about having lawns. The only thing the grassless/crushed rock "lawns" do is save on water. Otherwise, they are ugly, and add nothing of value to the aesthetics of a home, a street, or a neighborhood. They also add heat, and are a contributor to the heat island effect. As far as that goes, they are really no better than concrete or asphalt.

I read an article about what you just outlined----------and, the difference between one enclave and an another (lush vegetation vs. zeroscaping/desolate land) is dramatic. Apparently; the 'green' areas run significantly cooler which translates to less energy usage by AC units. Personally; I have noticed that living in the older enclaves of the Phx area when I take my nightly walk @ dusk in the summer...........it is not nearly as as physically debilitating for me even during the height of the monsoon season with its higher humidity.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I'm guessing you're referring to the predictions that El Niño will deliver a wet winter to Arizona. Don't always believe what you hear. The winter of 2006-2007 was an El Niño season, and the predicitons were for above normal precipitation then too ... but what we actually received was a rather dry winter. We can generalize and say that El Niño means a wetter weather pattern, but that's not always accurate. If the jet stream steers all the El Niño generated storms away from the SW, we are bascially screwed.

Nah, I do not buy into ENSO predictions. The science is rather thin and the correlation barely exists as you point out - especially in our neck of the woods. Roosevelt is rather high and could fill on an average runoff season, I think, though I haven't checked in a while. If El Nino makes a believer of me, then we could have a lot of water in the river.