Arizona Bans Teachers with Accents (move, education, rating)

[zenkonami]

Originally Posted by jaada

no not true- it might not apply to colleges but it sure should. I have had to drop a math class because the teachers english was so broken I had no idea what he was trying to say. I struggled with math as it was didnt need that too.

In college you can change classes. Applying this rule to colleges robs of potentially great teachers in favor of potentially mediocre teachers who happen to "speak good."

There are far larger problems with our college system in this country that need to be addressed (particularly costs) if we want to get to more "American speaking" teachers in the classroom.

[zenkonami]

Originally Posted by tiberius

And teachers will not be fired for having a slight accent, or for pronouncing an occasional word differently.. Once again, common sense will weed out the problem teachers.. The standards should be VERY tough for teachers of elementary school children, as they are just learning english themselves.. And any close calls should ALWAYS go to the students' needs, not the teachers'.

tiberius

Unless someone doesn't like the teacher, for reasons legitimate or otherwise. Then it provides an excellent excuse for removing a teacher, regardless of their teaching skills.

An excellent use of government resources, I might add.

[Noliving]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

Yes. From mere experience, dude. I believe it is that hard to determine. Despite claims to the contrary, we do not have an official accent in this country, and I can hear differences even in the accents of professional newscasters. It's not that hard to pick out clues as to where they are from or where they grew up. I've worked in the entertainment / infotainment industry. The people who make those decisions are not always so well versed on the matter as you might think. It often has more to do with marketing, ego, and protecting one's position as a producer...and also has a lot more to do with who you know. The two fields are not comparable.

I've worked in the entertainment industry too, yes it most definitely has to do with marketing, if they choose someone who no one could understand it would be a nightmare for marketing. I disagree I think the two fields are comparable, the people they put onto the screen have to be understood or your message is not going to get across unless of course the verbal is not the goal of the marketing team. They purposely put some people up for their accents and keep some people off set/screen because of their accents. Look at Rush Limbaugh, he has an excellent voice, crazy views and ideas but an excellent radio voice.

Originally Posted by zenkonami

If the teacher is able to speak the language and convey how it is to be spoken, read and written, then accent should be a non-issue. If the local school board, parents or principal determines otherwise, that's their prerogative, but determining it with any blanket level legislation is absurd. If the state were to declare, "no English teachers with accents, we know who you are" and not provide specific criteria, then it would be a law open to abuse designed to weed out "people who aren't like us."

Accent will be a non-issue in those cases and you know it, the only time it would be an issue is when the vast majority of people can't understand what the person is saying. It is not that hard to understand. I mean dude you are just taking this potential for abuse to the extremes, your like glenn beck in that you subscribe to the most extreme ends of consequences that are unlikely to happen.

[AZDesertBrat]

Does anyone think that all these teachers being let go MIGHT have something to do with other than the English thing? Like the 1.1 billion in budget cuts that has hit education pretty hard? I wondered about that today. I guess if that's what it was they'd say so and not 'blame' the English thing but it did cross my mind. At least being let go due to budget cuts wouldn't cause this kind of firestorm but then again AZ is getting black eyes left and right these days, so who knows? Seems like a lot of people are trying to dig up as much negativity as possible lately.

[smokemaster]

good point. They are making big stinks about petty criminal offenses from 20 years ago even though DPS says no problem.

[janelle144]

Originally Posted by las vegas drunk

I used to have a teacher who taught algebra in high school who was only 25 years old and extremely hot. It was distracting to us male students. I think next they should ban attractive teachers.

As long as she didn't come to class with a low cut blouse and bent over to teach you. Teachers need to be sure what they are teaching is being understood. If they are just there to collect a check then they need to be taken to task. They don't care about the students.

[lyzzard]

Well if you were in the Alhambra school district for the past some odd years (not including this one) and were an ESL student, you weren't getting the ESL classes that you were suppose to be getting anyhow. So if they had the Spanish speaking teachers there, they sure weren't using them. Of course the district got caught and had to remedy that ASAP , but I guess those teachers couldn't stay anyhow.

On another note, maybe, just maybe, some districts weren't using the Spanish speaking teachers they hired to use and they had to come up with some reason to let the others go when the districts who were using them found out. This part is just pure conjecture though.

Originally Posted by janelle144

As long as she didn't come to class with a low cut blouse and bent over to teach you. Teachers need to be sure what they are teaching is being understood. If they are just there to collect a check then they need to be taken to task. They don't care about the students.

There are a lot of teachers who really care about the kids and what they teach, they teach very clearly (both language and plans), but the students don't care for the class. So when the kids don't do well in that class because they don't care to do the work, is that the teachers fault?

[zenkonami]

Originally Posted by Noliving

Accent will be a non-issue in those cases and you know it, the only time it would be an issue is when the vast majority of people can't understand what the person is saying.

That's the second time in this discussion that I've had the "and you know it" tactic thrown at me. Seriously. If I knew it, I wouldn't be arguing it. I've seen too much stupid so far in my life to discount the potential for abuse.

Why would we need a law pertaining this if it's all such common sense?

Originally Posted by Noliving

It is not that hard to understand. I mean dude you are just taking this potential for abuse to the extremes, your like glenn beck in that you subscribe to the most extreme ends of consequences that are unlikely to happen.

Come on, ref! Glenn Beck? That's got to be an ad hominem!

Seriously, though. I don't think it's that extreme. Just look at some of the ridiculous decisions made by the Texas Board of Education in regard to the teaching of science and art...also involving vaguely worded and seemingly innocuous rules and situations:

A setback for science education in Texas

Texas education board approves science standards that don't include evolution 'weaknesses' (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/DN-evolution_24tex.ART.State.Edition1.4e8bee6.html - broken link)

Texas science education debate over - but the win is a loss

Texas Science Curriculum Director Canned for Mentioning Evolution

Official Leaves Post as Texas Prepares to Debate Science Education Standards

And in art...

Museum Field Trip Deemed Too Revealing

Clearly common sense prevailed.

I find it bizarre how we can live in a country where so called legitimate news organizations can question whether or not we are headed for socialism (having clearly never experienced a socialist society) and yet suggest that ideas and legislation such as "banning accents" is all covered by common sense; criticism of it being seen as "taken to extremes."

Of course I find it bizarre that Arizona, once a bastion of independent thought and debate, has become such a haven for laissez-faire irrational groupthink. The halcyon days of reason seem long passed.

[etacarinae]

That's terrible.
If anything , those accents are subversively preparing them for dealings with those who do not hail from this particular part of Earth.

[Noliving]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

That's the second time in this discussion that I've had the "and you know it" tactic thrown at me. Seriously. If I knew it, I wouldn't be arguing it. I've seen too much stupid so far in my life to discount the potential for abuse.

Why would we need a law pertaining this if it's all such common sense?



Come on, ref! Glenn Beck? That's got to be an ad hominem!

Seriously, though. I don't think it's that extreme. Just look at some of the ridiculous decisions made by the Texas Board of Education in regard to the teaching of science and art...also involving vaguely worded and seemingly innocuous rules and situations:



I find it bizarre how we can live in a country where so called legitimate news organizations can question whether or not we are headed for socialism (having clearly never experienced a socialist society) and yet suggest that ideas and legislation such as "banning accents" is all covered by common sense; criticism of it being seen as "taken to extremes."

Ya Arizona is now Texas? Give me a break. Your taking your paranoia to the extremes and basically claiming it is going to happen as an absolute fact, you know how many common sense rules are on the books in every single state? Hundreds if not thousands. You can't make a law/rule/legislation and not have the potential to have it be abused. Do you have any real evidence of Arizona getting rid of someone because of an accent that was perfectly understandable in any public job? Do you have any?

Lets say it did happen and one person complained but the person who they complained about is perfectly understandable, they are not going to be fired, so then the argument is they will be let go even with a perfectly understandable accent because they just don't want them there for some other reason, fine if that is the case then sue them, go to court and if the court can understand them then they win instantly. What your really talking about in this case is just abuse of power in general and every single piece of rule/law can be abused, so what you really mean to say is have safe guards in place to minimize the chance of this legislation being abused, but you going to the extremes basically says get rid of the legislation entirely. Well if that is the case shouldn't we get rid of every single piece of legislation considering the potential for abuse?