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The greatest fear from Beijing is that the Mainland Chinese will also want to vote for their own government(s) via universal suffrage by learning from Hong Kong's example. That would spell the end of CCP supremacy.
That should be the end goal.
You should never trust a communist especially on a full stomach!
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Originally Posted by Taiko
Or just have everybody show up with a tee shirt in the home team colors. One side of the stadium can read FREE HONG KONG, the other side can read FREE TIBET. And then we can beam across the world our corporate security forces forcing people out of stadiums.
Surely Lebron James can live on $500 million, half wages from Nike along with the Lakers pay and the occasional acting role.
you forgot the uighers...but no one really cares about the uighers unless they returned to tengrism of buddhism.
Hong Kong cannot be replaced by Singapore for three reasons.
First, Hong Kong serves as a window for China to import/search/steal foreign technology. And it also serves as a window for those Chinese companies to do dirty deals, i.r. Huawei dealing with Iran.
Second, Hong Kong also serves as a convenient base for those Red princelings to park their money.
Third, Hong Kong Stock Exchange is many times bigger than Singapore's. Under the threat of delisting from NYSE and NASDAQ, the only option for those Chinese stocks is relisting in HKSE.
If Shanghai and Shenzhen can replace Hong Kong as an international financial center, they would have done it many many years ago.
This is very true. In my view, most revolutions throughout history--including the current pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong--stem from economic concerns. Property rights and religious freedom are the cornerstone of freedom.
Don't forget, the American Revolution was largely because of economic concerns: unfair taxes, confiscation of property by Brits, etc. It was the fact that the Americans were taxed without representation in Parliament that made this economic crisis into a struggle for democracy.
It's the same way with Hong Kong. You have the extradition law that is really just an excuse for the Mainland to confiscate assets. You have the rampant eminent domain in China that will soon become reality in HK. If the PLA ever invades HK, it's game over for property rights in HK. China is enlargening the welfare system in Hong Kong by promoting a system of open borders--mass immigration from the mainland of poor, unskilled workers. Let's not forget that Xi is ramping up persecution of Christians, who are some of the most productive entrepreneurs in China. They can do all this because the PRC rigs the elections by hand-picking the lion's share of HK officials and electors.
For most of its history Hong Kongers were famously politically indifferent. Hong Kong was big on money, just like NYC. Except it had even less history and therefore even less identity than NYC. But with the PRC's destruction of economic freedom in Hong Kong, Hong Kongers are now frustrated that they have no representation: without democracy, they can't elect representatives who will vote for Hong Kong's cherished tradition of free markets.
Lest anyone think that Hong Kong's revolution against China is doomed, I would like to remind you that in 1776, the American colonies were puny and insignificant subjects rebelling against the UK, whose military was the largest, most high-tech, and well-trained military in the world. Just as how Hong Kongers today are divided between Pro-democracy and Pro-Beijing camps, the Americans were deeply divided between revolutionaries and pro-UK loyalists.
The poll was conducted by CUHK and the vast majority of HKers (88%) support an independent inquiry to allegations of police brutality, blame the HK government for the escalation, and the share of population that doesn't trust the police force at all (0 out of the scale of 10) goes from 6.5% in May to over 50% in October.
But sure, this is all Western media's fault. Lol. And you are probably gonna say this has nothing to do with whether people support the protest or not. The reality is the majority do and they all rightfully blame the (occasional) violence on the government, not the protesters, unlike you.
....... I would like to remind you that in 1776, the American colonies were puny and insignificant subjects rebelling against the UK, whose military was the largest, most high-tech, and well-trained military in the world. ..........
Actually US opium traders funded American Revolution. Without them, the British certainly would have won. Some of them were financiers and advisers to President George Washington during the American Revolution. They funded the war. You can't win the war without having some decent weapon to fight with. You certainly can't win if you fight with a stick with someone who has a gun or a sword.
Most of early American wealthy families were from New England. They made a great fortune in China trading opium through conceded territory British Hong Kong. When they returned to US, they spent some of these profits founded early American industries like steel and iron and institutions. Yale University, Columbia University, Harvard University, Princeton Uni, UPenn, hospitals, churches and many others were founded by them. Couple US presidents' great grandfathers were opium traders. e.g. President Teddy Roosevelt and President FDR's grandfathers were opium traders in China.
Actually US opium traders funded American Revolution. Without them, the British certainly would have won. Some of them were financiers and advisers to President George Washington during the American Revolution. They funded the war. You can't win the war without having some decent weapon to fight with. You certainly can't win if you fight with a stick with someone who has a gun or a sword.
Most of early American wealthy families were from New England. They made a great fortune in China trading opium through conceded territory British Hong Kong. When they returned to US, they spent some of these profits founded early American industries like steel and iron and institutions. Yale University, Columbia University, Harvard University, Princeton Uni, UPenn, hospitals, churches and many others were founded by them. Couple US presidents' great grandfathers were opium traders. e.g. President Teddy Roosevelt and President FDR's grandfathers were opium traders in China.
The USA declared independence in 1776. Hong Kong was ceded to the British in 1842. British Hong Kong did not exist during the American Revolution.
The poll was conducted by CUHK and the vast majority of HKers (88%) support an independent inquiry to allegations of police brutality, blame the HK government for the escalation, and the share of population that doesn't trust the police force at all (0 out of the scale of 10) goes from 6.5% in May to over 50% in October.
But sure, this is all Western media's fault. Lol. And you are probably gonna say this has nothing to do with whether people support the protest or not. The reality is the majority do and they all rightfully blame the (occasional) violence on the government, not the protesters, unlike you.
I said weekly polls if they support the protest. Is that weekly polls, absolutly not. Is that polls if they support the protest, absolutly not. Weekly polls if people support the protest does not exist, and you know it. Stop lying.
The questions are also designed to get a high percentage. I would support an independent inquiry to allegations of police brutality and I would blame the HK government. You still consider me some kind of enemy of the protest, because I do not support the violent actions of the protest. I cannot both be the enemy of the protest and also be included in the group who support the protest. That does not make any sense.
Also, if we are going to talk about polls. Over 40% of the HK public think protestors have used excessive force and over 40% believed it is not reasonable to take radical actions when the government does not respond to large scale protests. That is not a recent trend, they have believed that since August. Is 40% of HK population the enemy? Or maybe it is not that black and white?
The worst part, I only wanted weekly polls because it would be informative, I never said I expect to see a majority be against the protest. You have proven over and over again with for instance the massacre Chinese comment that the main reason you support the protest is because you hate China. You have also admitted that you do not care about the Hong Kong people. In fact I am starting to believe that you secretly want the PLA to go into HK, because that would turn world opinion against China. Unlike you, I actually care and want to see their goals realized. That is why I say that the current protests tactics are counter productive.
I said weekly polls if they support the protest. Is that weekly polls, absolutly not. Is that polls if they support the protest, absolutly not. Weekly polls if people support the protest does not exist, and you know it. Stop lying.
The questions are also designed to get a high percentage. I would support an independent inquiry to allegations of police brutality and I would blame the HK government. You still consider me some kind of enemy of the protest, because I do not support the violent actions of the protest. I cannot both be the enemy of the protest and also be included in the group who support the protest. That does not make any sense.
You have so many excuses. The poll clearly shows the attitude of HKers toward the protest, which is clearly supportive.
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Also, if we are going to talk about polls. Over 40% of the HK public think protestors have used excessive force and over 40% believed it is not reasonable to take radical actions when the govermemt does not respond to large scale protests. That is not a recent trend, they have believed that since August. Is 40% of HK population the enemy? Or maybe it is not that black and white?
The worst part, I only wanted weekly polls because it would be informative, I never said I expect to see a majority be against the protest. You have proven over and over again with for instance the massacre Chinese comment that the main reason you support the protest is because you hate China. You have also admitted that you do not care about the Hong Kong people. Unlike you, I actually care and want to see their goals realized.
50+%>40+%. That's just math.
And yes you have said that the majority now are against the protest which is clearly wrong. You are the one who keeps lying.
Besides I've never said that I only support the protest because I hate China or that I don't care about HK people. I support the protest because I support their cause, which you say you do but you keep defending the government/police and attacking the protesters who have done nothing wrong.
Actually Greysholic, lets see where you stand. If you could pick between
1. The protests ends due to a crackdown, no concessions given. Western countries do not care.
2. The PLA goes in, HK people loses all their freedoms and the western world sanctions China.
You have so many excuses. The poll clearly shows the attitude of HKers toward the protest, which is clearly supportive.
But it is not weekly polls if they support the protests. Do you understand the difference?
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50+%>40+%. That's just math.
And yes you have said that the majority now are against the protest which is clearly wrong. You are the one who keeps lying.
40% is still an awful large amount of people who are the enemy of the protests after your definition.
I never said the majority is against the protest.
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Originally Posted by Greysholic
Besides I've never said that I only support the protest because I hate China or that I don't care about HK people. I support the protest because I support their cause, which you say you do but you keep defending the government/police and attacking the protesters who have done nothing wrong.
So why are you not talking about Catalania? You are not in favour of the long prison sentences, are you?
There is another driving factor. It cannot be your love for HK, becaude you admitted that you do not care about the HK people. Your driving factor is your hate towards Chinese and the Chinese regime. You have admitted that you could see millions of Chinese die and not care. There are only two types of people who would say something like that, sociopaths and people who hate China.
Actually Greysholic, lets see where you stand. If you could pick between
1. The protests ends due to a crackdown, no concessions given. Western countries do not care.
2. The PLA goes in, HK people loses all their freedoms and the western world sanctions China.
Which option would you pick?
Neither.
And I doubt the west would even dare to peep if the PLA does go in. The west is collectively a bunch of pathetic cowards.
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But it is not weekly polls if they support the protests. Do you understand the difference?
It's not weekly polls, but it's not far from one.
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40% is still an awful large amount of people who are the enemy of the protests after your definition.
I never said the majority is against the protest.
Yeah and 48% said no to Brexit and more than 50% voted for Hilary. Whatever you say, 40% is much less than 60%.
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So why are you not talking about Catalania? You are not in favour of the long prison sentences, are you?
I do support Catalonia's right to self-determination just like I support HK's but I don't pay attention as much because a) it's far away, and b) Spain isn't nearly as dangerous as China is.
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There is another driving factor. It cannot be your love for HK, becaude you admitted that you do not care about the HK people. Your driving factor is your hate towards Chinese and the Chinese regime. You have admitted that you could see millions of Chinese die and not care. There are only two types of people who would say something like that, sociopaths and people who hate China.
I never said I didn't care about HK people. If I didn't I wouldn't support their cause.
Last edited by Greysholic; 10-18-2019 at 12:30 AM..
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