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I hadn't really thought about it that way, but not sure how someone could force you to be religious - would be like "forcing" a Yankee fan to be a Red Sox fan - you just can't do it. I guess I could see some sort of religious dictatorship (i.e taliban, the church long ago), but I don't see that happening here and that would probably not be good for any of us.
I am semi-religious, but worry all the time about what I am not doing (or am doing) that is wrong, and feeling guilty, worrying about my lack of faith, and all that good stuff that goes with being semi-religious. I envy the devout, one side or the other, because it would seem neither would worry so much about it like I do.
I didn't say "force" in there at all. No one can force me to do anything...annoy the hell outta me about it....yes.
I think you need to go read a history not prejudiced by your view of god, or your religion.
1- Hitler was Catholic, and his infrastructure was based on an order of the Catholic church. His ties with the Vatican were so strong as to have many still feeling he had his own pope, or worst owned the pope. The web is full of it, as are any none religious based (public) libraries. You need to get out of you box and read real history not propaganda.
2- Stalin was Atheist, but his goal was not related to his lack of faith, or on his education in a catholic seminary prior to his rise to power. It was pure power and economics. His killing also never came close to the 200,000,000 killed as a direct result of christianity.
3- Again Pol Pot who was educated in a French Catholic school was not fighting to impose his view of religion, but rather his view of society. Strangely enough he killed the educated which is the area where most Atheists come from.
4- Mao was Atheist, raised as a Buddhist but from my readings the Buddhist connection was based on respect of his mother. His push to power was again based on economics, not his negative religious views, and his death toll even when added with the other atrocities caused by the economic pushes by atheist don’t come close to the Christian death toll.
As for you list of wars, I think you would do well to review the list and reread your history. I do agree it is power, money, empire building, as well as greed, but I also see it all coming out of religions with the crown jewel of killers being the christian faith.
You are missing the point - you have to admit that religion has been pretty widespread over the history of man, so it is logical that religion would be used frequently as an excuse for aggression, war, genocide - but you admit it is really power, empire buiilding, etc - think about it - you are an evil dictator and you plan to totally invade Mexico and destory it's population so that you can make it part of your empire and rape it's resources. Now - what are you going to tell your "subjects"? - "Folks, you know what, I am a psychopathic, power hungry thug and I want to destroy mexico and kill all it's people, because I am a greedy, perverted, blood thisty Bast##d " - of course not!!- you would make up something like "people, the Mexican's are not Christians, they are Catholics, and they hate Americans and they are plotting to destroy us and wipe out Prostestantism even as I speak - they are sending millions of their "soldiers" over the border for years, and at this moment they are waiting for their orders to attack and kill us in our own beds. We have to to defend ourselves and attack now to end this menace to our way of life" Now - YOU would say this genocide was a result of religion, BUT IT'S NOT!! Does that not mean that there aren't a few religious nuts out there that commit heinous crimes as a result of their distorted beliefs - sure, but there are an equal number of non-religious nuts doing the same things.
To the OP: You make it sound like atheists and/or agnostics choose not to believe in whatever because it is easier and less time consuming. Nothing could be further from the truth. The majority of atheists either rebel against authority (what I deem "immature" atheists) or have thought long, hard, and spent many days studying to come to their own conclusions and decided that the lack of a god or higher being(s) is the truth of our universe (what I deem "mature" atheists).
You do point out an interesting topic though in that many atheists care deeply about what they believe in (i.e. nothing or some amorphous higher being that we cannot understand). I believe that this is because to question or pose a different mindset from oneself is inherently an attack on a person's set of ethics and being. It is not surprising that an atheist - or anyone of any religious thought - would react in a way that makes it seem they care. It is not unique to atheists. I could point out any preacher's or devout Christian's same sense of "caring" what others think.
So no, we don't choose to believe in atheism or agnosticism because we're lazy, but because we're either rebelling or because we've already put hard work into coming to that conclusion. And being passionate about one's beliefs is not unique to atheists.
Let me clarify, its my belief (opinion) that the particles which created the universe had to come from somewhere (a creator).
Particles created the Universe? That's an assumption. Even if it were true, another assumption is that "they had to come from somewhere", followed by the assumption that this equates to "a Creator". Sometimes you have to just admit that you don't know because there is no way to know, and try to get comfortable with it.
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In my non-religious times, sometimes I think that "good" or God if you will, equates to organization, wherin evil or satan is the force of disorganization in the universe. The universe is organized (good, God), but things become disorganized too - explode, implode, get devoured by black holes etc (evil, Satan), and this theory applies even to humans - the presence of life, civilization, the family, cities, love, marriage,science, art, etc = organized/good/God, where in contrast war, murder, death, destruction, pollution, broken households, hate, etc = disorganization/evil/satan) Anyone else ever think from this perspective?
It crossed my mind decades ago, but it didn't stay. If there were a god, why would he necessarily be good? And whence came Satan/evil? The Canaanites didn't think much of the Israelites, I would imagine (going by the Biblical account, which admittedly isn't good history). Also, the WW2 Nazi German army was certainly 'organized', but was it good? As an army, it was, but... Besides, all of this conjecture, although entertaining, is nullified by the assumptions mentioned above.
Uhhh... blue laws, mandatory church attendance, discrimination based on religion/church membership, mandatory prayer in schools, Atheists cannot hold public office (which is actually on the books in 7 states, NC being one of them).
There is a faction that could best be described as the American Taliban, that would love to begin down this path, if they could just get a foothold of power. Bush and Bush are clear indicator that it's possible. We had a president that said:, the spawn of this fool that started 2 wars because 'god told him to'.
So if we get a bit defensive, well there is a reason
Actually, atheists can hold public office in all United States jurisdictions. Many laws remain on the books long after they have been invalidated by courts.
Actually getting elected as an atheist... now that's another story!
Actually, atheists can hold public office in all United States jurisdictions. Many laws remain on the books long after they have been invalidated by courts.
Actually getting elected as an atheist... now that's another story!
So true. It's weird how society forces people to lie about things then complains that people are so fake. LOL. As a country we take comfort in our own hypocrisy.
Actually, atheists can hold public office in all United States jurisdictions. Many laws remain on the books long after they have been invalidated by courts.
Actually getting elected as an atheist... now that's another story!
Well the city council person did here in the bible belt, even though opponents tried to out him as an Atheist, his agenda, and the people being fed up with those currently on council got him in. Then there was a push to prevent him from taking the oath to be sworn in. OBTW He was not sworn in with a bible.
If we ever get another president that is a member of the American Taliban, such as Bush, and there is a big turnover in the Supreme Court, these laws on the books, but currently ignored, due to lower court cases could again become active.
And never say "it can't happen", that is the position of a fool. 20 years ago, what chance would you have given a black man to be elected president?
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- you just can't do it. I guess I could see some sort of religious dictatorship (i.e taliban, the church long ago), but I don't see that happening here and that would probably not be good for any of us.
