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Old 07-05-2011, 08:53 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,742,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twillit View Post
Agnostic is someone who doesn't believe in Religion but can believe in Jesus and his teachings. Religion is conforming to a faith's rituals and traditions. Religious people know that in group setting, people working together can contribute and make a tremendous difference in implementing collective beliefs, etc. Religion is a faith based club but it's supposed to be a club that is nurturing, loving, supportive, effective, positive and righteous...not judgemental but righteous in protecting the poor, indigent, mentally ill, families, etc.
So annoying when people just decide to change definitions.

This word is exceedingly clear especially give its etymology.

"gnostic"- from the greek gnosis (sp?? latin was a while ago sorry) meaning knowledge

"a"- also greek meaning no

agnostic means without knowledge, or more correctly those who believe it is not possible to know whether or not a deity exists.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
C.E.O., you are either a theist or an atheist, ......
This is how I see it! If you accept the possibility that gods could exist, (however minuscule that possibility may be) how can you be atheist??
That's my take anyway. Mind you, it's a bit early in the morning and I probably need more tea and nicotine.
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Old 07-06-2011, 07:02 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
Very well said. (I had a pair of AT&T employees visit my front porch yesterday who approached the level of religious proselytizing.)
Odd coincidence. The other day a couple of bods rang my doorbell to persuade me to change my power supplier. "Hi! I'm John and this is Mary..."
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
This is how I see it! If you accept the possibility that gods could exist, (however minuscule that possibility may be) how can you be atheist??
I only accept the possibility because I cannot logically disprove it, since I can't search everywhere that a god (or at least a demi-god) might be hiding. I am an agnostic atheist, meaning that I realize that there is no way to be absolutely certain of whether a god exists or not, but choose to disbelieve for lack of evidence. If there were a God who wished me to believe in It, It could do better than to rely on ancient mythology to convince me, and to reward the credulous and punish the rational.
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Old 07-06-2011, 01:24 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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I'm Agnostic ... not an Atheist


Just goes to show ya.....nobodys' perfect.
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Old 07-06-2011, 02:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
This is how I see it! If you accept the possibility that gods could exist, (however minuscule that possibility may be) how can you be atheist??
That's my take anyway. Mind you, it's a bit early in the morning and I probably need more tea and nicotine.
As an agnostic I can also concede the possibility that the tooth fairy exists. It doesn't mean I believe in the tooth fairy.

Same goes for god. I concede that it is possible for a god to exist but I do not believe in any god. Therefore I am also an atheist.

I keep using the t-shirt analogy. Atheist and theist are like colors at either end of the spectrum, say atheist is red and theist is purple. Agnosticism and gnosticism are not spectrum qualities, they are discrete. So that would be like being either a solid or being stripped. You cannot be both at once and there is no real inbetween.

That gives four types of shirts red striped, red solid, purple striped and purple solid. Just like there are four ways to describe beliefs; agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist, agnostic theist and gnostic theist.

Get it?
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:25 PM
 
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I would just ask yourself if you have belief in a god. If you don't have belief then you are an atheist. Expanding the definition of agnosticism, which was only invented in the 19th century, is like the theists who try to pin definite beliefs on atheism, like it is some other form of religion. An atheist doesn't have to definitively say there is no god or they believe one thing or another. It just means that I don't have a belief in god.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,865,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
As an agnostic I can also concede the possibility that the tooth fairy exists. It doesn't mean I believe in the tooth fairy.

Same goes for god. I concede that it is possible for a god to exist but I do not believe in any god. Therefore I am also an atheist.
If you concede that it is possible that gods exist then you believe in the possibility of gods. Atheists do not have a belief in gods.

Let me try another tack.

1. I am atheist. I have no belief in gods. I have no belief that they could possibly exist somewhere that we have not yet discovered.

2. I am agnostic. I do not see enough evidence either way to make a decision. I am open to the possibility that gods may exist.

In 1 above we have no belief in gods = atheism.
In 2 above we have an acceptance that gods may exist. A belief in gods, however small = theism.

Last edited by Rafius; 07-07-2011 at 01:07 AM..
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,865,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRunner View Post
I would just ask yourself if you have belief in a god. If you don't have belief then you are an atheist. Expanding the definition of agnosticism, which was only invented in the 19th century, is like the theists who try to pin definite beliefs on atheism, like it is some other form of religion. An atheist doesn't have to definitively say there is no god or they believe one thing or another. It just means that I don't have a belief in god.
Precisely! ...and if you have a belief that gods could exist somewhere, then you are not atheist.

A-theist = without belief in gods.
Theist = with belief in gods (the degree of belief is irrelevant).
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:35 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,175 posts, read 26,211,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Precisely! ...and if you have a belief that gods could exist somewhere, then you are not atheist.

A-theist = without belief in gods.
Theist = with belief in gods (the degree of belief is irrelevant).
It's not a matter of any,however small, belief in a god....it's a matter of belief in a possibilty.
Since all that there is to be known is not known, it is possible that something we now consider to be a surety, may one day be proved not to be.
It is merely an acknowledgement that we don't know everything.
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