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To me, however, the crux of the matter is incontrovertible. It is not the product of rational argument, nor expression of faith, but simple historical fact. The faith to which I ascribe has brought substantial light and unique meaning to the world.
Ok, maybe judaism has done this. Perhaps not.
It is a silly thing to base ones deism upon though. Simply because a group of people have a history of accomplishments does not mean that there is a god. The Japanese have accomplished many wonderful things. The classical Romans and Greeks too. Islam was a shining star of knowledge in the 11-14th centuries, with accomplishments in architecture, math, medicine.... Obviously I could go on.
To acknowledge a rich cultural/historical heritage is one thing. But to take that acknowledgment and say "therefore god", and furthermore "eating dairy together with meat is wrong" is simply a failure of intelligence.
That is not correct. The theist believes in a god or gods, while the atheist does not. It may seem like a minor point, but it isn't.
No, I see your point, but it is one that is rarely recognized by the most ardent defenders of their positions. As a theist, I recognize that there may not be a God, but I believe that there is. I would assume that your position is that there may be a God, but you don't believe that there is. What eats my liver are those that repeatedly declare with certainty that they know one way or the other. On the atheistic side, those that claim to know do so arrogantly and mockingly. On the theistic side, those who claim to know patronize, mock, and insult all the same. I guess it depends on whether there truly is a God to know which of them are insane.
The first commandment is "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". Satan wants to be worshipped as a god. I will not worship Satan, but I don't deny his existence (though I wish I could). God is real, and so is a large spirit world of thousands of lesser spirits.
Using the Bible doesn't prove or answer anything. It was written by men. Your ten commandments were copied off the Egyptian Book of The Dead.
Besides which, there are/were plenty of Gods just as valid as Bible god who also demanded exclusive worship.
No, I see your point, but it is one that is rarely recognized by the most ardent defenders of their positions. As a theist, I recognize that there may not be a God, but I believe that there is. I would assume that your position is that there may be a God, but you don't believe that there is. What eats my liver are those that repeatedly declare with certainty that they know one way or the other. On the atheistic side, those that claim to know do so arrogantly and mockingly. On the theistic side, those who claim to know patronize, mock, and insult all the same. I guess it depends on whether there truly is a God to know which of them are insane.
A theist believes in god or some kind of deity and is religious. An atheist is one who does not believe in god and does not subscribe to any religious belief (s) and lives religion free. I know, for sure, that I am an atheist as I do not believe in any god and I do not have any involvement with religion in any way. You could call me a radical atheist.
It is a silly thing to base ones deism upon though. Simply because a group of people have a history of accomplishments does not mean that there is a god. The Japanese have accomplished many wonderful things. The classical Romans and Greeks too. Islam was a shining star of knowledge in the 11-14th centuries, with accomplishments in architecture, math, medicine.... Obviously I could go on.
To acknowledge a rich cultural/historical heritage is one thing. But to take that acknowledgment and say "therefore god", and furthermore "eating dairy together with meat is wrong" is simply a failure of intelligence.
That is a great post, Fishbrains!
Every religion and culture has contributed to make our civilization what it is.
Of course, I understand it when people brag about their culture because I think our American system of government is the best in the history of the world.
Another theist, who talks as if he has never heard any of the arguments against his position, unfortunately, this seems to be quite common among theist..
What eats my liver are those that repeatedly declare with certainty that they know one way or the other.
That's a good point, Georgia. I was riding the train home from work with one of my Christian friends, and he said he "knew" his Christian beliefs were true.
I thought it was kind of amusing. Why is it so important for some people to always be right?
In fact, I find it boring to be around people who agree with me. What can I learn from them? In a discussion with a liberal Democrat, I feel alive!
[URL="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Yenta"]Yentas[/URL] are usually female, but in this case I'll make an exception.
"To define oneself as simply agnostic (which I believe you truly are) sounds unsatisfingly wishy-washy and degrades your ability to take a firm stand against deism, in its various forms. While this is certainly understandable, I suspect that you have traded accuracy for titular intensity."
I think the rabbi should just attend to his own business and not presume to know what is going on in the minds of atheists.
Yentas are usually female, but in this case I'll make an exception.
"To define oneself as simply agnostic (which I believe you truly are) sounds unsatisfingly wishy-washy and degrades your ability to take a firm stand against deism, in its various forms. While this is certainly understandable, I suspect that you have traded accuracy for titular intensity."
I think the rabbi should just attend to his own business and not presume to know what is going on in the minds of atheists.
I agree, but he *claims* that he was an atheist.
Quote:
Having spent a sizable portion of my life as an atheist, I understand your perspective. What I have found hard to understand from my new vantage point, however, is why so many of you spend so much time trolling around the comments section of religiously-themed blogs or spend good money to buy billboards on the Jersey Turnpike asserting a negative
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