The Jewish view on Athiests (born, debate, contradiction, Christ)

[theflipflop]

OK, I know you don't need nor have you asked for my blessing (for those of you who don't know me, I'm a black hat wearing Orthodox Jew), but Jews do not have any problem with athiests being athiests. And both religious and non-religious Jews would agree on this point.

You folks are all set. Live a good life. Treat your fellow man with kindness and respect. Do the right thing. If you don't have a "book" to tell you what the right thing is, ask your parents. Ask somebody you respect.

And if there is a G-d, I can assure you He is smart enough to know good from bad, and He'll give you the benefit of the doubt when it is your time to be judged. You will be judged by the totality of your deeds on this earth. You will not be judged by your creed. Talk is cheap, but the proof is in the pudding (your actions). And if you are right and there is not a G-d, then you've lost nothing by leading a life dedicated to treating others with respect and kindness.

Anyone who comes to tell you otherwise, I would be suspect of their likelihood in being judged similarly favorably.

[nana053]

Jewish Atheist

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by theflipflop

OK, I know you don't need nor have you asked for my blessing (for those of you who don't know me, I'm a black hat wearing Orthodox Jew), but Jews do not have any problem with athiests being athiests. And both religious and non-religious Jews would agree on this point.

You folks are all set. Live a good life. Treat your fellow man with kindness and respect. Do the right thing. If you don't have a "book" to tell you what the right thing is, ask your parents. Ask somebody you respect.

And if there is a G-d, I can assure you He is smart enough to know good from bad, and He'll give you the benefit of the doubt when it is your time to be judged. You will be judged by the totality of your deeds on this earth. You will not be judged by your creed. Talk is cheap, but the proof is in the pudding (your actions). And if you are right and there is not a G-d, then you've lost nothing by leading a life dedicated to treating others with respect and kindness.

Anyone who comes to tell you otherwise, I would be suspect of their likelihood in being judged similarly favorably.

Your more than usual favourable opinion of our intentions to live right, never mind our views on religion, are greatly appreciated, I can assure you, in a world where the word 'Atheist' causes a good deal of hostile reaction.

[BIMBAM]

Thank you for your respect and understanding.

[Chango]

Originally Posted by theflipflop

OK, I know you don't need nor have you asked for my blessing (for those of you who don't know me, I'm a black hat wearing Orthodox Jew), but Jews do not have any problem with athiests being athiests. And both religious and non-religious Jews would agree on this point.

You folks are all set. Live a good life. Treat your fellow man with kindness and respect. Do the right thing. If you don't have a "book" to tell you what the right thing is, ask your parents. Ask somebody you respect.

And if there is a G-d, I can assure you He is smart enough to know good from bad, and He'll give you the benefit of the doubt when it is your time to be judged. You will be judged by the totality of your deeds on this earth. You will not be judged by your creed. Talk is cheap, but the proof is in the pudding (your actions). And if you are right and there is not a G-d, then you've lost nothing by leading a life dedicated to treating others with respect and kindness.

Anyone who comes to tell you otherwise, I would be suspect of their likelihood in being judged similarly favorably.

And that's why we don't hear about crazy fundamentalist jews every night on the news.

Judaism is one of the few "grown-up" religions; Christianity and Islam could learn a lot from their "source material".

[hiker45]

Originally Posted by theflipflop

Jews do not have any problem with athiests being athiests.

Would you be upset if your parents, spouse, or children suddenly told you they had become Atheists?

How about if they became born-again Christians?

Or Muslims?

[Hueffenhardt]

Thanks, theflipflop.

[NateHevens]

Thank you, theflipflop.

I actually still call myself Jewish because I consider myself part of the Jewish culture/heritage, and I don't feel it's a contradiction because Judaism is so much more than just a religion.

And in fact, yes, one of the things I like about Judaism is that the Jewish view of judgement is that it's based on works, not necessarily on faith.

That said, there are "evangelical Jews". Consider the Haredi in Israel, for example, who attempted to pass a measure that would give them exclusive rights to define who is and who is not a Jew. And what about the fanatics from Israel involved in the illegal expansion/colonization issues that are talked about right now going on in the Middle East? In fact, Israel is awash with almost as many stories about fanatic Jews as we in the States are about fanatic Christians.

The biggest difference is, with perhaps one or two exceptions, Jews don't proselytize. For the most part, Jews leave well enough alone. And they are more than happy to engage in an honest, revealing debate. I hate fanaticism in all its forms, yet my favorite sparring partner after I came out as an atheist was an Orthodox Rabbi in Georgia... I actually managed to convince him to except evolution (he was a preaching Creationist before0hand [Old-Earth Creationist, however]... and I was there when he gave a sermon about how he was wrong and science was right about evolution... and was shocked to find his congregation agree with him, as I expected grumbles and gasps), and, in turn, he pacified my anti-theism and convinced me to look at religion just like I did and do the rest of life: in shades of grey.

The great thing about Judaism is that, again with one or two exceptions, education is highly valued. It may be a bit of an appeal to authority to point out that Albert Einstein was a member of the Jewish nation (even if he professed a Pandeistic view of God), and that Jews are perhaps the most represented group amongst the Nobel Prize winners, but it also makes my point. One has to admire that commitment to education, understanding, and, yes, science.

Judaism is, without a doubt, the most mature of the Abrahamic religions. Granted, it's mainly because Judaism is the oldest, but it's also because Judaism has gone through the worst. Perhaps I'm reaching, here, but I think it can be safely said that Christians and Muslims will never experience anything like what the Jews went through from the Crusades to the 1940's, and, sometimes, still today. We (and yes, I am purposefully including myself, as I am a proud member of the Jewish nation) went through a lot as a nation, and we continue to do so.

I think it's possible that Christianity and Islam will never mature the way Judaism has. I think part of it is because they will never experienced what the Jews have experienced, but I think it may also be because there won't be enough time. In the cultural zeitgeist (NOT THE CONSPIRACY MOVEMENT!), things change, including religion. Eventually, the Abrahamic religions will die out, giving way either to other religions or more deistic philosophies (hate to say it, but atheism won't take hold until after forms of deism have reigned for a while... the God Hypothesis has to be phased out slowly, in stages... ). I think Judaism may be the only of the three to survive because it is not just a religion. When our current religious culture finally does die (as it inevitably will), Christianity and Islam will live on through historical documents and records, but I think Judaism will also live on through its people. The religious aspect may die, but I don't think the culture will die.

But anyways... that's my (admittedly biased) take (seeing as I grew up Jewish and all that).

[TRANSPONDER]

That's how I see it too, Nate. One has seen a few reports of Certain Jews who could be told to keep their hands of the type of jews they thought weren't Jewish enough, but by and large, they are ok by me simply because they do not try to force their religion on everybody else.

Which is curious in view of some of the crazy conspiracy theories that Christians have thrown up about Jews and which are still - regrettably -circulating today. It is of course something that's wrong about Christianity, not Judaism.

I also agree with you what you say about phased withdrawal, which applies also to the theist worldview and a period of agnosticism or, as I would call it, convalescence. In fact, if the worldview was generally accepting that it was agnostic (we all are, but most don't know it) that would be Job Done, effectively.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

I heard a joke ages ago about two Rabbis who were discussing the existence of god. They concluded in the early hours that there was no such entity and went to bed.

The next day one gets up and finds the other praying, doing all the normal rituals and walking into the Shul for morning services.

"I thought we had agreed there was no God," he asks only to be told "Yes, what does that have to do with it?"