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THK, your post makes me so sad. Knowing you from other subforums, and what a good guy you are, it really bothers me to know that you were subjected to rottenness in the name of religion.
The thing about faith is that the people who cling to it really do NOT know. They just believe. They may feel secure in their beliefs, but the fact remains that if they are walking around on planet earth, they are not dead, therefore they don't truly know what it's like to be dead.
You say they have no idea how lucky they are. My answer to that is "ignorance is bliss."
You're a thinker, and you're smart. Sometimes the price for being those things is to be aware of the injustices of the world, of the transient nature of life, and of the folly of humanity. Awareness can mean that you see things you'd rather not, things that less-aware people, in their self-absorption and myopia, do not see.
But there's a flip-side to that. It also means you have some power. When you are aware of the injustices of the world, and how short a time you have on it, you can choose to do something about it. You can choose your path, and give meaning to your own life, from within, instead of being led blindly by--and at the mercy of--other people. When you do something good, you will know that you are doing it because it's the right thing to do, not because you fear punishment or crave a reward. You own it, in a way that believers never will.
It's a huge task, and it may seem like a heavy burden at first. How easy it would be to just do as clergy and 2,000-year-old books tell you. But creating your own purpose is like working out: The more you do it, the better and easier it gets. It goes from being a chore to being something exciting as it makes you stronger.
You'll get there. Keep thinking, talk to folks here, and then get up and do.
And of course if you're an unbeliever you believe you'll be in oblivion, your consciousness dispersed, and completely unconcerned with what happens to your body.
Maybe this all comes from an identification of self with body ... this is a false association as I see it, pretty much no matter what your existential beliefs are. Even if you believe your consciousness is emergent from physiological processes such that you and your body are welded together, once you're dead it doesn't matter as both the mind and the body cease to function anyway.
It's partly a squeamishness with the corporeal nature of the body issue, for me-
as well as an attachment to my body as the source of what gets called my mind.
I well recognize that once I'm dead, my awareness will cease to be-the problem is that I'm alive & aware now,
and the inevitable cessation of my faculties/integrity frightens me-though it fails to convert me towards religiosity.
Hurricanekid,
Truth is that which does no harm.
When you go to bed at night, think this in the back of your mind.
You will stop seeing the harmful things from your past. Slowly, but it
works.
It takes time to get over the silent hell.
It is possible to rationalize away certain thoughts and concepts. But the fact remains some things are true. Mind games work for a time, but in the end reality does prevail.
I'm afraid of the prospect of decay & death-
but once I'm dead, I'm not worried about what that'll be like,
since (in my atheist perspective) there won't be any me left
to experience the decomposition of my body & absence of my consciousness.
It is unfortunate that we formaldahyde our dead, then place them in caskets so that they take so long (if at all) to decompose.
I suggest that if we were to place the body only, in its natural state, into the ground, then we would have completed our part in the cycle of life.
Well, here's how i think of it. Just because someone says its too big of a risk to not do what I say doesn't make what they say any more plausible. AKA hell is just too hot to not avoid, so accept my argument of Christianity. I could come up with a worse heaven and a better hell in my own religion that we need to worship Chris Matthews. Should you accept it just because there is the possibility that I'm right and you will have to pay the consequences of my even worser hell if you don't believe me instead of Jesus or something else?
Oh, for petes sake, forget everything you have ever heard.
Just believe me...and just me.
Don't worry, be happy...now. Be free and enjoy life...right now.
Be kind to people, compassionate and good.
Banish any other stories people tell you.
Heaven, hell, God, no God, afterlife, no afterlife.
Find joy in anything, all the time....find joy in the tiniest thing.
Don't think or dwell on any downer thoughts, banish them from your mind.
RX ...for one week and proceed prn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid
As child who got exposed early to religion and it's evils, I think being a mere mortal is too much some times. I try my hardest to keep living life normally...
...But as someone exposed to the idea of hell, I have to put up with my memories in my sleep.
...They are not pretty memories.
...Ultimately I hope who ever is in charge of taking care of my consciousness after it departs the earth has mercy on me, for I can't make the decision to have faith in who ever they are. No matter how hard I try, I haven't become a prophet yet.
...And because of that, men say I am going to suffer for it?
...One thing for sure, it must be nice to know the correct religion. I certainly don't. Does that make me an inferior soul? That's what men say. But I can't exactly trust men. People who know the truth....
...Have no idea how lucky they are.
As child who got exposed early to religion and it's evils, I think being a mere mortal is too much some times. I try my hardest to keep living life normally...
Yeah me too, hardcore fundamentalism can really damage a person's whole being. It took a very long time for me to be even a little comfortable with having questions and doubts because the guilt and fear were so great.
Quote:
...But as someone exposed to the idea of hell, I have to put up with my memories in my sleep.
...They are not pretty memories.
The idea of hell is what put me on the journey of Universalism and then Agnosticism. It just never seemed plausible to me, even when I was trying so hard to convert others to Christianity and trying to scare them with the prospect of hellfire for all of eternity. I never quite bought it and after I allowed myself to delve into questioning and science, all the blinders were removed and I was free to question to my heart's content without the burden of fear and guilt. It's quite freeing and I sure hope you get to a place where it's not haunting you in your sleep.
Quote:
...Ultimately I hope who ever is in charge of taking care of my consciousness after it departs the earth has mercy on me, for I can't make the decision to have faith in who ever they are. No matter how hard I try, I haven't become a prophet yet.
...And because of that, men say I am going to suffer for it?
Well as an agnostic I'm just not sure where I stand with the whole "what happens after we die" thing. I feel sure that there is more to our existence than just these worn out old bodies that we become.......there's so much unfinished business. Untimely death, disease, children starving, war, violence......the list is endless and I feel that this just can't be it. I understand the NEED to want religion to make sense for the simple fact that it does offer up some sort of explanation to the "after-life" but at what cost? Isn't it just better to relax in the fact that absolutely no one knows or will ever know who is alive and just live this life to it's fullest? That's the ideal thing, but when you've been indoctrinated from birth it almost certainly is going to muck up your critical thinking abilities because religion is not rational. It's all fairy tales and superstition but I think the end game is to have some explanation, whether rational or not, of life after death.
You must try to let go of the fear and guilt, it will eat you alive. Just look at it like this, what's the worse that can happen after death? Nothing? That's better than that imaginary hell and if it turns out there is a god he won't be anything like the Bible god or the god of any other religion. That you can count on.
Quote:
...One thing for sure, it must be nice to know the correct religion. I certainly don't. Does that make me an inferior soul? That's what men say. But I can't exactly trust men. People who know the truth....
...Have no idea how lucky they are.
NO ONE knows the truth, it's just that some are so sure that they're right they become willing to do anything to protect their beliefs, even killing. The terrorists prove that point. It's sad and we are in the minority but to ease your own mind and "soul" (after all, that's where you have to live) just live for now and give yourself permission to feel empowered by not knowing, not fearful and guilty. That's residual bs that you just have to let go of.
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