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Atheists criticize faith healers because their beliefs and practices are based in faith. There is also no evidence that faith healing works. Not only that, there is evidence that it causes death and suffering. You can see this by all the children that have suffered and died when their parents try to use faith healing on them.
The idea that religious ideas cause more harm than good was hardly invented by the New Thought folks. Neither was the idea that a person's state of mind influences physical health.
Assuming jesus existed at all (and for the record, I do think that at least one real person and his teachings is at root of the gospels), he was a jewish reformer, not a person who was trying to free people from religious dogma.
Modern-day faith-healers are outright charlatans or deeply superstitious people. I say this as a person who was dragged to events where faith-healers did their thing and people spoke in tongues. It's true you don't need a god to foment mass hysteria, but I fail to see why you think atheists should be good with that.
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Originally Posted by agnostic soldier
Atheists criticize faith healers because their beliefs and practices are based in faith. There is also no evidence that faith healing works. Not only that, there is evidence that it causes death and suffering. You can see this by all the children that have suffered and died when their parents try to use faith healing on them.
I agree with these folks, faith healers are dangerous people and they are NOT friends of atheists.
While I'm certain that there is no divine power involved, I do recognize that faith heeling is certainly feasible. We know that we are capable of making ourselves ill with our minds, so why shouldn't we also be capable of effecting cures with the same? Truly believing that your health is being restored by a higher power, may well be all that is required in some cases to restore health. Even if the preacher involved is a money grubbing fraud, if that true belief is generated, then it has a chance of working.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Originally Posted by Grandstander
While I'm certain that there is no divine power involved, I do recognize that faith heeling is certainly feasible. We know that we are capable of making ourselves ill with our minds, so why shouldn't we also be capable of effecting cures with the same? Truly believing that your health is being restored by a higher power, may well be all that is required in some cases to restore health. Even if the preacher involved is a money grubbing fraud, if that true belief is generated, then it has a chance of working.
Doesn't work too well on regenerating those amputated stumps does it though?
But if you take one of your "New Thought" ideas and express it very clearly, I will comment on it.
I would just describe it in my own words perhaps as as Clear Thinking. But I will try to make a brief description of Quimby's ideas as I remember them. This is really more of my own ideas influenced by him.
1. The "Truth" spoken of in the Bible refers to the revelation from nature, science and reason. "God" corresponds with the universe and the scientific laws.
2. "Lies" refer to the religious dogma (Satan) accusing humanity of sin, thus separating many people from the truth. This type of religion has always opposed scientific development.
3. Jesus did not intend to start a religion. He was trying to promote this scientific understanding. He literally healed people by speaking rational truth.
Mary Baker Eddy was a follower of Quimby and was healed of a lifelong illness in her middle age. Then she started Christian Science based upon his ideas and her own understanding. Both of them understood the Bible very metaphorically and in opposition to organized Christianity. Another similar denomination is Religious Science. ...However modern day Christian "faith healers" have drifted away from the original New Thought system, drifting back to more traditional Christianity.
Jesus did not intend to start a religion. He was trying to promote this scientific understanding. He literally healed people by speaking rational truth.
NO really? Are you a theist? What exactly is it? I'm not getting where you're coming from.
I would just describe it in my own words perhaps as as Clear Thinking. But I will try to make a brief description of Quimby's ideas as I remember them. This is really more of my own ideas influenced by him.
1. The "Truth" spoken of in the Bible refers to the revelation from nature, science and reason. "God" corresponds with the universe and the scientific laws.
That is a modern interpretation (and in my view a very strained and labored one). It is very clearly not the view of the people who wrote either the old testament or the new testament.
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules
2. "Lies" refer to the religious dogma (Satan) accusing humanity of sin, thus separating many people from the truth. This type of religion has always opposed scientific development.
Again, not the view of the people who wrote the bible.
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules
3. Jesus did not intend to start a religion.
This is true. He was preaching a return to that old-time religion, which in his case meant a non-hellenized judaism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
He was trying to promote this scientific understanding. He literally healed people by speaking rational truth.
No, he was not trying to promote scientific understanding. He was trying to promote personal relationship with god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Mary Baker Eddy was a follower of Quimby and was healed of a lifelong illness in her middle age. Then she started Christian Science based upon his ideas and her own understanding. Both of them understood the Bible very metaphorically and in opposition to organized Christianity. Another similar denomination is Religious Science. ...However modern day Christian "faith healers" have drifted away from the original New Thought system, drifting back to more traditional Christianity.
I hate to tell you this, but faith healing in america predates both quimby and eddy.
You appear to know very little about theology in general and the bible in particular.
I would have a lot more respect for people like quimby and eddy if they had not tried to gain credibility by torturing the bible.
That is a modern interpretation (and in my view a very strained and labored one). It is very clearly not the view of the people who wrote either the old testament or the new testament.
Again, not the view of the people who wrote the bible.
This is true. He was preaching a return to that old-time religion, which in his case meant a non-hellenized judaism.
I couldn't disagree with you more. Do you read the fable stories in the Bible as history? That would explain a lot. For some reason most Christians ignore the "meat" of the Bible which is everything else besides the stories.
This thread was not intended to debate these ideas with Christians, and now you are trying to push your Christian ideas into the atheism forum.
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