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Everyone has the right to own beliefs. Interested in hearing about atheism:
If the universe formation and life was purely accomplished through scientific explanation, then how do atheists know that a divine creator(s) didn't initiate the process? [By "creator" I am not implying the god of Abraham etc.] It is atheists' right to believe what they'd like. I'm curious to read the about atheists' thoughts. What makes atheists certain there is/was no divine being?
This thread is not meant as an attack. Everyone has the right to own belief system. Just interested in hearing about atheism:
If the universe formation and life was purely accomplished through scientific explanation, then how do atheists know that a divine creator(s) didn't initiate the process? [By "creator" I am not implying the god of Abraham or any other.] It is an atheist's right to believe what they'd like. I'm curious to read the about atheists' thoughts. What makes atheists certain there is/was no divine being?
Not subscribing to the idea because there is a lack of evidence for doing so, and asserting that there is no possibility, are different ideas.
What I see as having no possibility of accuracy are any of the beliefs systems in a god which are accompanied by specific characteristics of that god along with a list of that god's desires regarding how we behave. Those beliefs systems are obviously human inventions based on imagination, desire, or the private, earthly agendas on the part of those advancing the views.
Is the answer to the cosmic riddle divine creation? Not impossible, but no particular reason to think that this explanation trumps any other, therefore I do not believe it as an absolute.
What makes atheists certain there is/was no divine being?
Nothing makes us think that. Most of us are not certain in the sense of 100% convinced or having evidence to prove a negative. That doesn't mean we believe.
Knowledge claims and belief claims influence each other but vary independently of each other. Most atheists are also agnostics. Even the ones that don't accept the label "agnostic", when pressed, will not claim that they have personally scoured the entire universe and traveled throughout time to make sure that no deity is hiding under a rug somewhere. That is the sort of nonsensical claim that theists like to put into our mouths.
The actual situation is this.
1) Invisible, supernatural, personal, interventionist gods are not falsifiable hypotheses and therefore can be neither proven nor disproven. So no one can claim to (dis)prove such a thing.
2) When theists assert their favorite deity, they are making both a positive claim and an extraordinary claim. Therefore the burden of proof falls squarely on theists to PROVE their god, not on atheists to DISPROVE it.
3) But see (1) above. There is no way for a theist to empirically, rationally prove their god.
4) Therefore we atheists simply see no evidence, no reason that is sufficient to cause us to believe.
5) When there is insufficient evidence to substantiate a claim, the rational default is unbelief, an open mind, and a willingness to sit with uncertainty unless and until, if ever, acceptable evidence presents itself. At that point, one then re-evaluates one's beliefs in the light of that new evidence.
Now let's see if, having been informed by an atheist what most atheists actually think and why, you can drop your stereotype that we are arrogant know-it-alls making a knowledge claim when in fact we are for the most part, epistomologically humble people who simply haven't been given a valid reason to believe. Or if, like most theists we encounter here, you will insist that you know better than us what our actual positions are.
Oh, and one more thing. Many, perhaps most atheists, are former theists or at least have a far deeper and less naive understanding of religion -- likely including your religion -- than you may be willing to give us credit for.
Everyone has the right to own beliefs. Interested in hearing about atheism:
If the universe formation and life was purely accomplished through scientific explanation, then how do atheists know that a divine creator(s) didn't initiate the process? [By "creator" I am not implying the god of Abraham etc.] It is atheists' right to believe what they'd like. I'm curious to read the about atheists' thoughts. What makes atheists certain there is/was no divine being?
We don't. We don't have any good idea about where the stuff from which the universe was formed came. It might have been a creative force of some kind. maybe even an intelligent one, but the question of where that could have come from tends to make us turn to a 'something from nothing' hypothesis.
The thing is that Theists seem to demand that we explain exactly how the universe came to be without a god and when we say we don't know, this is considered to totally discredit atheism.
Everyone has the right to own beliefs. Interested in hearing about atheism:
If the universe formation and life was purely accomplished through scientific explanation, then how do atheists know that a divine creator(s) didn't initiate the process? [By "creator" I am not implying the god of Abraham etc.] It is atheists' right to believe what they'd like. I'm curious to read the about atheists' thoughts. What makes atheists certain there is/was no divine being?
OP, you don't have a true understanding of what atheists are. Though they may be a small percent that may prescribe to the notion that there is NO CHANCE for any supernatural, mystical being (and atheists who are much smarter than I am, may correct me if I use incorrect terminology), but I believe those are called positive atheists (or strong atheists), most atheists don't fall under that category.
I can only speak for myself and the atheists I have met during my lifetime, but we (in my circle) are what you may define as agnostic atheists (or just simply atheist); meaning we find no evidence thus far that would lead us to believe there is a divine creator, or supernatural force, or what have you. Therefore, based on the information we have to make our rational decision, we do not believe there is such a being or beings.
Where do people like the OP get this idea about atheism?
All atheism means is literally, that one is without theism. That doesn't always mean that the atheist is saying there's no way there's a God. In fact, I'd venture to guess they're a whole lot more open about many different possibilities than all sorts of religious people. It simply means they need more evidence than is available to conclude one way or another. Some are strident, sure, but many more are simply disinterested in what's being provided.
Though, may I be so bold as to say, for me personally, I find no evidence for the existence for Santa Claus. Though millions of people truly believe there is such a being (here, we call them children), I don't prescribe to that belief, based on rational thought, lack of evidence for Santa to exist, and more persuasive evidence that he does not exist. Therefore, I don't believe Santa exists. Now, do I know for CERTAIN he does not? Perhaps there is such a being. Perhaps there was a Saint Nicholas who did give gifts to well-behaved children, perhaps he did or does have magical powers. Luckily, I don't have to prove that he does not exist - it would be impossible for me to do so since someone who argues that he does exist can claim he may be invisible when it is not Christmas Day, his workshop cannot be found unless Santa personally invites you, etc., etc.
For the same reason, I find it highly unlikely Santa exists, I also find it highly unlikely the Christian god exists, and any other deity that human beings have claimed have existed. Can I say any of these beings do not exist with 100% certainty? No.
EDIT: Just wanted to add, that I find my atheism is akin to me "growing up" and no longer believing in Santa Claus or any gods.
Everyone has the right to own beliefs. Interested in hearing about atheism:
If the universe formation and life was purely accomplished through scientific explanation, then how do atheists know that a divine creator(s) didn't initiate the process? [By "creator" I am not implying the god of Abraham etc.] It is atheists' right to believe what they'd like. I'm curious to read the about atheists' thoughts. What makes atheists certain there is/was no divine being?
I'm curious why you asked this question, considering that "How do atheists know there is zero chance of a divine creator?" doesn't even describe the definition of Atheist.
you can drop your stereotype that we are arrogant know-it-alls making a knowledge claim when in fact we are for the most part, epistomologically humble people who simply haven't been given a valid reason to believe. Or if, like most theists we encounter here, you will insist that you know better than us what our actual positions are.
Oh, and one more thing. Many, perhaps most atheists, are former theists or at least have a far deeper and less naive understanding of religion -- likely including your religion -- than you may be willing to give us credit for.
I apologize if my OP was interpreted that way. I myself am non-religious.
I had thought the one thing that separates atheism from agnosticism is a belief there are no deities. What then separates atheism from agnosticism?
I apologize if my OP was interpreted as an attack on atheists. I myself am non-religious.
I had thought the one thing that separates atheism from agnosticism is a belief there are no deities. What separates atheism from agnosticism?
Hi MerriMAC, an honest question. A simple search will bring up a BASIC definition:
In the popular sense of the term, an "agnostic", according to the philosopher William L. Rowe, is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God, while a theist believes that God does exist and an atheist believes that God does not exist.
Notice there is no "knowing" that God does not exist for an atheist. It's all about belief.
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