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It's not a question of being intelligent or uneducated, people who believe in gods--as well as the supernatural--are DELUSIONAL. That is the discussion that should be taking place. Being delusional isn't predicated upon educational level, rather it is upon a willingness, on the part of the individual, to disregard rationality in favor of fantasy.
So I'm told I have less than 6 months to live by medical doctors, fast growing cancer.
I go to an indigenous healer. I am told to pray, and I do.
During this time I hear voices that tell me what to do to be cured and healed.
I do these things. I am filled with peace and a sense of well being.
Three weeks later all films are clear, and the radiologist is shaking his head in amazement, asking what "cured me."
According to the post above it is all a fantasy and I suffer from delusions.
Fact: I am alive and healthier than I have ever been.
Fact: The above happened to me over 8 years ago.
The post above talks about rationality and fantasy, but seems to totally discount and disregard what is more compelling than either: and that is a person's own direct personal experience.
You are basically saying anyone who has experiences you don't understand or you can't explain, is delusional!
So is it a delusion and fantasy that I am alive and well? LOL
I can tell you for sure had I not followed that path I did, I would be dead and buried, one more narrow-minded person unwilling to open up to greater life experience....and in the process greater life. Or just plain life period!
The more I learn, the more I am validated in my belief that there is no deity. This is consistent with the advance of science throughout history. The more scientific advances are made, the more things are proven to not originate from gods, devils, spirits, magic, demons, etc.
Right on. Before science came in, everybody though earthquakes, diseases, droughts, lightning, etc, were caused by God. The more they discover, the more credibility religion loses.
So I'm told I have less than 6 months to live by medical doctors, fast growing cancer.
I go to an indigenous healer. I am told to pray, and I do.
During this time I hear voices that tell me what to do to be cured and healed.
I do these things. I am filled with peace and a sense of well being.
Three weeks later all films are clear, and the radiologist is shaking his head in amazement, asking what "cured me."
According to the post above it is all a fantasy and I suffer from delusions.
Fact: I am alive and healthier than I have ever been.
Fact: The above happened to me over 8 years ago.
The post above talks about rationality and fantasy, but seems to totally discount and disregard what is more compelling than either: and that is a person's own direct personal experience.
You are basically saying anyone who has experiences you don't understand or you can't explain, is delusional!
So is it a delusion and fantasy that I am alive and well? LOL
I can tell you for sure had I not followed that path I did, I would be dead and buried, one more narrow-minded person unwilling to open up to greater life experience....and in the process greater life. Or just plain life period!
A bit of faulty logic here.
Obviously your health is not a delusion. But it is also not proof of a god's existence.
For me, open-mindedness is the highest goal. Attributing your health only to a god closes off a significant portion of your mind.
...So is it a delusion and fantasy that I am alive and well? LOL
I can tell you for sure had I not followed that path I did, I would be dead and buried, one more narrow-minded person unwilling to open up to greater life experience....and in the process greater life. Or just plain life period!
It is a well demonstrated fact that the body can and does heal itself some 30% of the time. Ever heard of the placebo effect? The diseases are real and the healing is real, yet there was never anything done except tricking the person into believing they were treated. No reason a faith type thing can't work the same way and it does at the same rate.
The 70% failure rate is always excused by saying it was god's will. In medical trials, a treatment must demonstrate an effect statically significant above the placebo rate. Faith healing and praying does not meet this standard. It is great it worked for you. But it does not prove anything about a magical being. You just successfully tapped into the body's ability to heal itself.
If only we could figure out how to more reliably make the placebo effect work. That would be a real breakthrough.
For me, open-mindedness is the highest goal. Attributing your health only to a god closes off a significant portion of your mind
How is it being open-minded to say someone is suffering delusions, simply because they have a different set of life experiences than you? That is about as close-minded as a person's thinking can get!
As far as intelligence, which statement below shows greater intelligence and open mindedness:
(a) "This is something I have never experienced in my own life, and I do not understand it." or
(b) "Since this is something that does not make rational sense to me, you are suffering from delusions and living a fantasy."
Correct ownership would simply to say and own "I have a different set of experiences. I don't understand religion and I find it unappealing. It makes no sense to me."
But posts here are making the huge arrogant leap to "And since I don't understand it you must be delusional" showing a lack of intelligence, a narrow-minded thinking, a very limited scope of life experience, and an unwillingness to listen to or learn from anything that might cause them to question their views.
So I'm told I have less than 6 months to live by medical doctors, fast growing cancer.
I go to an indigenous healer. I am told to pray, and I do.
During this time I hear voices that tell me what to do to be cured and healed.
I do these things. I am filled with peace and a sense of well being.
Three weeks later all films are clear, and the radiologist is shaking his head in amazement, asking what "cured me."
So, when I was five years old and regularly being physically and emotionally abused every day -- all those prayers I prayed to god to rescue me really worked, huh? I must have just imagined the fact that the beatings, hunger, and emotional abuse didn't go away due to prayer and belief.
How is it being open-minded to say someone is suffering delusions, simply because they have a different set of life experiences than you? That is about as close-minded as a person's thinking can get!
I never mentioned delusions myself but, to answer your question, life experiences do not necessarily offer the answers to life's big questions.
Quote:
As far as intelligence, which statement below shows greater intelligence and open mindedness:
(a) "This is something I have never experienced in my own life, and I do not understand it." or
(b) "Since this is something that does not make rational sense to me, you are suffering from delusions and living a fantasy."
I choose "a" but I have to add that experience does not equal an infallible understanding of actual events. I will never discount a person's emotions regardless of whether I think they are justified (my wife has taught me that much) but I will not concede that the feelings and revelations that people experience are always understood by them (even as they experience them).
So I'm told I have less than 6 months to live by medical doctors, fast growing cancer.
I go to an indigenous healer. I am told to pray, and I do.
During this time I hear voices that tell me what to do to be cured and healed.
I do these things. I am filled with peace and a sense of well being.
Three weeks later all films are clear, and the radiologist is shaking his head in amazement, asking what "cured me."
According to the post above it is all a fantasy and I suffer from delusions.
Fact: I am alive and healthier than I have ever been.
Fact: The above happened to me over 8 years ago.
The post above talks about rationality and fantasy, but seems to totally discount and disregard what is more compelling than either: and that is a person's own direct personal experience.
You are basically saying anyone who has experiences you don't understand or you can't explain, is delusional!
So is it a delusion and fantasy that I am alive and well? LOL
I can tell you for sure had I not followed that path I did, I would be dead and buried, one more narrow-minded person unwilling to open up to greater life experience....and in the process greater life. Or just plain life period!
Praying when sick is like taking a placebo. It dosen't really do anything, but it makes you think that it is helping, and thus it does. However, like placebo's, it dosent work for everyone.
How is it being open-minded to say someone is suffering delusions, simply because they have a different set of life experiences than you? That is about as close-minded as a person's thinking can get!
Because belief in a deity, according to psychology, meets the criteria for delusional disorder. Let me show you.
This is the criteria for delusional disorder. I don't have a link because I'm reading it out of a book I have. The book is Delusional Disorder by Alistair Munro.
The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
Despite his profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
The belief is, at the least, unlikely.
The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his psyche (psychology).
The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs.
Individuals who know the patient will observe that his belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien.
If you analyze those, you will see that every single one of them is present in theism. Especially the one about no matter how unlikely something is (religion and logic don't coincide), the person will cling to that belief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSumRaja
As far as intelligence, which statement below shows greater intelligence and open mindedness:
(a) "This is something I have never experienced in my own life, and I do not understand it." or
(b) "Since this is something that does not make rational sense to me, you are suffering from delusions and living a fantasy."
Correct ownership would simply to say and own "I have a different set of experiences. I don't understand religion and I find it unappealing. It makes no sense to me."
But posts here are making the huge arrogant leap to "And since I don't understand it you must be delusional" showing a lack of intelligence, a narrow-minded thinking, a very limited scope of life experience, and an unwillingness to listen to or learn from anything that might cause them to question their views.
It is not close-minded at all. It has been proven that in certain situations, the brain will cause delusions. It has been proven that the brain creates near death experiences when people are sick or in situations that alter their state of mind. That's why people experience crazy things under the influence of some drugs as well. Anything that alters brain function (sickness, some forms of drugs, even spinning until you pass out from dizziness) can cause delusions.
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In medical trials, a treatment must demonstrate an effect statically significant above the placebo rate. Faith healing and praying does not meet this standard. It is great it worked for you. But it does not prove anything about a magical being. You just successfully tapped into the body's ability to heal itself.