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Ok.. you are stronger.. you win..
Are you happy now ?
"I cannot refute you, Socrates, said Agathon: Let us assume that what you say is true.
Say rather, Agathon, (replies Socrates) that you cannot refute the truth; for Socrates is easily refuted."
I'm curious as to what these "other motives" might be. Since we don't count them as being part of our membership numbers, I'm at a loss as to what benefit to us you think we see in this.
LOL... Why do I get the feeling I should have "Smiled when I said that, pardner!" Ya know Katz, I gave the Mormons a BIG compliment a few threads south of this one (see the one on what houses of worship one would be comfortable in) and no Katz coming along with "what a nice thing to say!" But if potential trouble's brewing, into town you ride... Just say'in...
Please understand I used the term "may" in stating other potential motive (no declarative definite) and assigned no value, positive or negative, to said motive.
That being said, a good friend of mine who is a former Mormon and and was very involved in her stake and ward expained to me (her theory) that the LDS are big into Genealogy, and have centers in many areas where people can come in and search their ancestry. I know this is true because I visited my local LDS center to do part of my own ancestry research. She went on to state the church may have motives along the lines of what I state below...
The LDS do trace ancestries and lineages back very well, and have some of the best records along these lines in the world. They apparently Baptize the deceased (or at least used to) as they go along with Genealogical research... At least this is the order as I understand it.
A celestial motive the LDS....may....have beyond selfless altruism, is that the baptized will go to LDS heaven and their sheer numbers and ranks there will be greater there...
An earthly motive they may have, is a percentage of folks who visit LDS Genealogy Centers may make a financial donation/contribution and/or say "what nice people these are, I would like to explore the faith further". This could be seen as "passive recruitment by exposure" over more "active" recruitment by missionary door knocking/proselytizing...
Neither motive, if indeed they are motives, would be considered overly egregious or derogatory as things tend to go in the world of religion.
The question is: Does Christian Church grant a Christian funeral to someone who still is atheist ? No .. in every Christian Church..
It is not my fault if the church has these rules..
It is your fault for lying and claiming that every Christian Church has such rules.
The Church of England's website:
Quote:
Type of service
All advice given here guides you through the choices you can make for a Church of England funeral, but the Funeral Director will ask the family whether there are any special wishes for the funeral to be humanist, civil or religious. Remember you don’t have to be a churchgoer or consider yourself religious in order to have a Church of England funeral. It is available to everyone. Think this through with family and friends and then add your preference to your notes.
Not everyone realises it, but if you live in England, you are automatically living in a Church of England parish and its clergy will lead a funeral service for anyone living within their parish.
“Because you live in a Church of England parish, there are certain things that you can access,” Reverend Canon Sandra Millar explains. “For example, you can get married, you can have your baby christened in your parish church, and you can have a funeral led by a Church of England minister.”
“The church will not turn anyone away,” says Reverend Juliet Stephenson, “However religious or irreligious they are. Everyone gets the exact same treatment.”
You have to focus your attention to the Christian Church... The Christian Church can not ( i think it is nor necessary to explain ) grant you a Christian funeral if you are not baptized and/or atheist.. Is it clear or no ?
For sure neither Hawking nor the Church were "hypocrite"
The problem is for the atheists who will not accept the fact...
No, you and your dubious assertion are the problem, not to mention the confrontational act of posting it here. I’ll believe Snopes.
LOL... Why do I get the feeling I should have "Smiled when I said that, pardner!" Ya know Katz, I gave the Mormons a BIG compliment a few threads south of this one (see the one on what houses of worship one would be comfortable in) and no Katz coming along with "what a nice thing to say!" But if potential trouble's brewing, into town you ride... Just say'in...
Sorry, I've had a bad day and I plead guilty to having been uber-sensitive to your remark and overly touchy in my response. At any rate, thank you for your explanation (below):
Quote:
A celestial motive the LDS....may....have beyond selfless altruism, is that the baptized will go to LDS heaven and their sheer numbers and ranks there will be greater there...
Well, that would be a kind of a non-issue since we don't believe heaven is subdivided along denominational lines.
Quote:
An earthly motive they may have, is a percentage of folks who visit LDS Genealogy Centers may make a financial donation/contribution and/or say "what nice people these are, I would like to explore the faith further". This could be seen as "passive recruitment by exposure" over more "active" recruitment by missionary door knocking/proselytizing...
Yeah, okay. I believe the financial contributions would be miniscule, but the "passive recruitment by exposure" could conceivably be a factor. Even so, I don't see it as a significant one.
Again, I apologize for over-reacting. Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...
Sorry, I've had a bad day and I plead guilty to having been uber-sensitive to your remark and overly touchy in my response. At any rate, thank you for your explanation (below):
No worries.... We all have those days, and to a degree I suppose some people of faith feel they are in "enemy territory" sometimes here on the Atheist/Agnostic Forum. Bear in mind I am one of the few who actually post jokes poking fun at fellow Atheists/Agnostics over on the Joke Thread (so poking fun at myself in the process I suppose).
And I'll tell ya there's not much material either, I often have to formulate my own jokes... dumb as some of them may be...:
There. Now you no longer have ignorance as an excuse. Stop lying.
Search ( you love Google ) Anglican Christian funeral service and Holy Mass ..which includes part of the "requiem," that is a service that includes the taking of Holy Communion.
You will take time to know what is a highly liturgical church (Anglican, Roman Catholic, etc.)..
A simple blessing can be offered by any Christian priest ( including catholics ) to anyone.... including Muslims or atheist..
There are some different types of Anglican Christian ceremonies for remembering someone who has died:
Anglican Funerals includes: Funerals, graveside services, and memorial services..
There. Now you no longer have ignorance as an excuse. Stop lying.
Trying rather than Lying. I suspect our pal got trapped into first supporting a claim to bag a senior physicist for Jesus or rather the catholic church and then got into fighting to not ever admit being wrong.
But you put the last nail in the coffin of the Hawking conversion claim. Pity I can't rep you.
P.s though he seems to be trying the old ploy of retreating while trying to save face with this stuff, which seems to prove nothing
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiago12
Search ( you love Google ) Anglican Christian funeral service and Holy Mass ..which includes part of the "requiem," that is a service that includes the taking of Holy Communion.
You will take time to know what is a highly liturgical church (Anglican, Roman Catholic, etc.)..
A simple blessing can be offered by any Christian priest ( including catholics ) to anyone.... including Muslims or atheist..
There are some different types of Anglican Christian ceremonies for remembering someone who has died:
Anglican Funerals includes: Funerals, graveside services, and memorial services..
Anglican services range from "High Anglican" that look so papist that decent protestant congregations walk out in disgust to the bogstandard three hymns and a prayer, pop a few foreign coins in the plate and across the road to the pub.
This does nothing at all to underpin the surely dead and buried 'converted by Papal blessing' claim, nor the next -best claim of a secret deathbed conversion whispered to the dog -collar so he'd agree to officiate.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-12-2018 at 04:45 AM..
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Just say'in...
We all have those days, and to a degree I suppose some people of faith feel they are in "enemy territory" sometimes here on the Atheist/Agnostic Forum. Bear in mind I am one of the few who actually post jokes poking fun at fellow Atheists/Agnostics over on the Joke Thread (so poking fun at myself in the process I suppose).
though he seems to be trying the old ploy of retreating while trying to save face with this stuff, which seems to prove nothing 
