Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yeah, I’m actually Mormon - or was raised so, & still go but don’t believe much. I go more for the social relationships. My son is about the age when he’s getting pressure to serve a proselytizing mission but after travelling and seeing how happy many are without religion, he decided not to.
I agree that it isn’t honest to invest in a religion just so you could get something. Then again - don’t we all do everything (even “altruistic” acts) because we get something out of it? As Peck wrote, think, “smart selfishness” not “stupid selfishness.”
Carl Jung suggested that believing in an afterlife is “psychologically hygienic.” Who really knows what’s beyond death? Yet the placebo effect is real - so it makes sense to have it work for us rather than against us, right?
I know lots of believers who are like you, some call themselves wedding and funeral Christians.
I will settle on going to the Y, cycling and hiking and eating smart for a longer life. I might even have good genes as my mother, who was never very active, just turned 91 and a Hang nail or subbed toe may be her greatest problem. And she too is not a believer.
If there is an afterlife I am banking that living a good life rather than praying to the right guy is the most important. My wife and I sometimes talk about what our dogs and cats are doing in Heaven and how one of our dogs is getting along with one of the cats that died 6 years before the dog was born.
Don't exactly know what you mean by spiritual experience.
This atheist has always had those transcendental and oceanic feelings identified by William James. I was raised religious, so not surprisingly, I attributed them to god-belief. But after I left my god-belief behind, I continued to have them. My conclusion is that these experiences are the result of how my human brain is wired, and I am pretty sure that most human beings can have them if they are open to them. Trust me, you need not believe in god in order to feel buoyed by these experiences and to feel that your life is hugely meaningful because of them. They're as real as the experience of, say, the color red.
And I will say that in any crowd of atheists I meet, and will find people who know exactly what I mean, because they have them too.
Yes, I realize that it’s not all or nothing.
But my point was that in each group - there is some herd mentality (group thought) which all who claim belonging must honor & not object to, or else they suffer some negative feedback. Religion doesn’t have a monopoly on group thought.
I know lots of believers who are like you, some call themselves wedding and funeral Christians.
I will settle on going to the Y, cycling and hiking and eating smart for a longer life. I might even have good genes as my mother, who was never very active, just turned 91 and a Hang nail or subbed toe may be her greatest problem. And she too is not a believer.
If there is an afterlife I am banking that living a good life rather than praying to the right guy is the most important. My wife and I sometimes talk about what our dogs and cats are doing in Heaven and how one of our dogs is getting along with one of the cats that died 6 years before the dog was born.
If you know others who believe similar to me - send them my way! I’d love to get to know more people who basically moved to stage 5 of Fowler’s faith stages. (Left side: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/b4...8025bc77d7.jpg)
Ha ha - I live close to BYU (“the Y” mormon university) so I thought that was what you meant by, “settling on going to the Y.” But you probably meant YMC right? Anyway - there are lots of ways to be healthy - caring for pets is one. You’re married - that’s another. There are other organizations that fascilitate social connections- like the gym (ymca, crossfit etc), or clubs and now there are all kinds of meet up groups. Still, at least for many people, religion serves as a social glue and means to get important support during trying times.
Still, I agree that living a good life is more important than which religion you adhere to, if any. A scripture says, “God is no respector of persons. God looks on the heart.” And what’s kind of funny is that in the founding of Mormonism, Joseph Smith prayed to see which church he should join. Guess what God told him! “Don’t join any of them - they’re all wrong.” Some truth there - though I also see that each has some good.
Last edited by SuperSoul; 08-23-2018 at 06:28 PM..
Don't exactly know what you mean by spiritual experience.
This atheist has always had those transcendental and oceanic feelings identified by William James. I was raised religious, so not surprisingly, I attributed them to god-belief. But after I left my god-belief behind, I continued to have them. My conclusion is that these experiences are the result of how my human brain is wired, and I am pretty sure that most human beings can have them if they are open to them. Trust me, you need not believe in god in order to feel buoyed by these experiences and to feel that your life is hugely meaningful because of them. They're as real as the experience of, say, the color red.
And I will say that in any crowd of atheists I meet, and will find people who know exactly what I mean, because they have them too.
Whenever someone dismisses an experience as just the result of the way their brain is wired, I am compelled to point out to them that ALL OUR EXPERIENCES from the mundane to the majestic are the result of the way our brain is wired - no exceptions. It is a pointlessly silly statement that applies to absolutely everything we experience. It in no way distinguishes or invalidates ANY experience or its potential interpretation.
Whenever someone dismisses an experience as just the result of the way their brain is wired, I am compelled to point out to them that ALL OUR EXPERIENCES from the mundane to the majestic are the result of the way our brain is wired - no exceptions. It is a pointlessly silly statement that applies to absolutely everything we experience. It in no way distinguishes or invalidates ANY experience or its potential interpretation.
You are missing the point - and missing the point deliberately. You know exactly what he means - that the there is an explanation that this stuff is the product of the brain and nothing more. You know this, even though you disagree. So you betray yourself my making what is in fact an intellectually dishonest semantic nit -pick.
Whenever someone dismisses an experience as just the result of the way their brain is wired, I am compelled to point out to them that ALL OUR EXPERIENCES from the mundane to the majestic are the result of the way our brain is wired - no exceptions. It is a pointlessly silly statement that applies to absolutely everything we experience. It in no way distinguishes or invalidates ANY experience or its potential interpretation.
And I didn’t say that conceiving of these experiences as a natural product of my brain invalidated the experience, did I? I specifically said it is as real as the color red. How an individual interprets it is superfluous to the ability to have it. In particular, I said that no god-belief (nor any other specific belief) is required in order to have it.
2.) Most Christians have dismissed the O.T. dietary laws in favor of Paul's tastier version:
Indeed they have. Despite...
1. Their Jesus telling them that he hadn't come to change the laws.
2. Their 'Word of God' saying that the laws will endure for ever.
2. 'The Laws' didn't apply to them anyway. They were for the Jews.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
And they so take God's really as as unquestionable that they cannot comprehend the idea that we really have no god -belief. They are sure we must be lying. It's odd at first sight since they deny the existence of the Other gods, but if you say so they give you a very odd look.
"Of course I believe in their gods - just as they believe in mine. It is all the same God."
I was listening to a song yesterday that reminded me so much of thists. The chorus was...
I'm so lucky. My pride and joy is my...ball and chain.
Rather like a Christian telling us how they are so lucky that they found Jesus but we see it as them having placed a huge burden around their neck.
Remember, much of that depends on how you treat your body.
Also remember, that if every person had a sucky last 4 years - having more years to your life would still mean more years to your life - so the sucky part would be postponed.
You again presume that any additional accrued years would simply be tacked on the end as additional years of misery. Given that these extra years are gained by healthier living , this is highly unlikely, and logically they would occur before the body begins to break down and would actually delay the onset of the final downward spiral.
Given what we are learning about dementia it is possible this sort of lifestyle helps stave that off also and adding to the quality of the final years.
Yeah, I’m actually Mormon - or was raised so, & still go but don’t believe much. I go more for the social relationships. My son is about the age when he’s getting pressure to serve a proselytizing mission but after travelling and seeing how happy many are without religion, he decided not to.
I agree that it isn’t honest to invest in a religion just so you could get something. Then again - don’t we all do everything (even “altruistic” acts) because we get something out of it? As Peck wrote, think, “smart selfishness” not “stupid selfishness.”
Carl Jung suggested that believing in an afterlife is “psychologically hygienic.” Who really knows what’s beyond death? Yet the placebo effect is real - so it makes sense to have it work for us rather than against us, right?
Well Damn' me I'd never have known. It would be a derail here..I mean, another one but it might be interesting to know whether or if your present views relate much to Mormon teaching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
Indeed they have. Despite...
1. Their Jesus telling them that he hadn't come to change the laws.
2. Their 'Word of God' saying that the laws will endure for ever.
2. 'The Laws' didn't apply to them anyway. They were for the Jews.
I was listening to a song yesterday that reminded me so much of thists. The chorus was...
I'm so lucky. My pride and joy is my...ball and chain.
Rather like a Christian telling us how they are so lucky that they found Jesus but we see it as them having placed a huge burden around their neck.
..Damn..another cancelled post. ... Don't mention the burka..But finding some people to say how much they like being exploited is not evidence.
I already did that four extra years of life is not a fair swap for your brain, but Supersoul is better than that and engages in discussion, rather than trying to club us into insensibility us with his personal beliefs And I can relate to the Benefit of a religious Thingy - like Buddhism may have put years on my life by teaching me mindfulness and awareness.
This feeds into the deBotton initiative where we take the Benefits that religion can offer while not buying the dubious stuff. It's a valid suggestion, but it's like atomic power and cloning. You gotta be careful what you are doing.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-24-2018 at 06:16 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'd never have known. It would be a derail here..I mean, another one 
but it might be interesting to know whether or if your present views relate much to Mormon teaching.
And I can relate to the Benefit of a religious Thingy - like Buddhism may have put years on my life by teaching me mindfulness and awareness. 
