The Meme Machine (believe, scientific, experience, follower)

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by coosjoaquin

What they don't do is last. Internet memes tend to follow a very well known endemic pattern where they spread like the plague, reach a peak and then die off disappearing into the dark corners of the net. This is where they fail.

I agree, but I don't see speed as a measurement for being successful.
A lie is a lie and of course it will spread the fastes over the internet, but it still is a lie.

[coosjoaquin]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by coosjoaquinI agree, but I don't see speed as a measurement for being successful.
I lie is a lie and of course it will spread the fastes over the internet, but it still is a lie.

I think we are speaking in different levels, to me it doesn't matter what the meme is so long as it finds a means of surviving and spreading to others. The meaning of life might be mind-blowing but if the only ones who know it are mute monks living high up in the mountains, its not a very good meme.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by coosjoaquin

I think we are speaking in different levels, to me it doesn't matter what the meme is so long as it finds a means of surviving and spreading to others.

Ah, in that case Nazism once upon a time could be seen as successful, but I hope it won't ever be successful again.
I mean the most successful way to spread propaganda is through the internet.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by coosjoaquin I agree that the internet is the fastes replicating meme.
But claiming that it also is the most successful?

The internet is a lot like language in this regards. It's a method for reproduction of thoughts or ideas. Because it is so widespread in this day and age it could be considered close to on par with language. However, to my knowledge, every human civilization uses language whereas not all of them use the internet. The internet surely has the ability to spread more ideas faster - ironically using language as well (in most cases) - than language does but it is almost unparalleled in the way it can reproduce ideas or spread thoughts.

As Coos brought up, an example would be "All your base are belong to us" took most of the internet by storm and what went from something probably like an inside joke turned into a massive reproduction. It had, in essence, perfect reproduction or heredity until it died out or "got old".

But, while some memes such as a certain saying may die out faster than others (and may indeed be a byproduct of other memes such as language); other memes stand the test of time in the form of arts, religions, philosophies, musics, etc... There's almost a sort of speciatic heirarchy one needs to attach to them. Genre, groups, subgroups. Such as Art, Impressionist, Renoit or Religion, Christianity, Jesus.

For the anti-memicists they may come up with something like "When was the last time you saw a Christianity turn into an Islam?"

[coosjoaquin]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by coosjoaquin Ah, in that case Nazism once upon a time could be seen as successful, but I hope it won't ever be successful again.

I mean the most successful way to spread propaganda is through the internet.

Neither do I but I do think it was incredibly successful, the ideologies of national socialism spread throughout the country getting embedded deep into the minds of people there.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by coosjoaquin Ah, in that case Nazism once upon a time could be seen as successful, but I hope it won't ever be successful again.
I mean the most successful way to spread propaganda is through the internet.

Exactly right! Nazism, or this idea spread by Hitler didn't just happen because Hitler stood up in front of the whole world and proclaimed that he was going to kill Jews or even persecute them. It was an idea or set of ideas mostly started with Mein Kampf that appealed to the emotions or thoughts of people in a certain background - for whatever reason. And as those emotions and thoughts were played on, they began to grow and mutate and replicate and catch hold much like a virus might. Imagine, if you will, a virus that just spreads from one person to the next. In some cases it stays the same. In other cases it has slight changes. And as the virus is continuously passed from one person to the next to the next to the next, the fittest and strongest (usually the most intriguing or emotionally appealing parts) tend to stick - they are the most suitable for their environment and will continue to be replicated the more powerful they are.

I must reiterate that memes are often called "mind viruses" because of the way they "act". Yet, I must point out that they are not always bad things; and so I am a little hesitant to attach the label "virus" to it because it has such a negative connotation.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

I must reiterate that memes are often called "mind viruses" because of the way they "act". Yet, I must point out that they are not always bad things; and so I am a little hesitant to attach the label "virus" to it because it has such a negative connotation.

The thing is that humanity acts (exactly?) like a virus.
Or maybe a cancer, we keep growing in places were it would be better for the environment (and ourselves) if we didn't.
Because of our intelligence we do not picture ourselves as a virus, but our human behaviour is not that different from a virus, right?
That what is successful survives, even if it kills us as a race.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by GCSTroopThe thing is that humanity acts (exactly?) like a virus.
Or maybe a cancer, we keep growing in places were it would be better for the environment (and ourselves) if we didn't.
Because of our intelligence we do not picture ourselves as a virus, but our human behaviour is not that different from a virus, right?
That what is successful survives, even if it kills us as a race.

In all honesty... I hate to admit it, but I think you are indeed right...

[Lucidus]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

For the anti-memicists they may come up with something like "When was the last time you saw a Christianity turn into an Islam?"

Oh joy. I can't wait until we have the debate about whether memes were created by a higher power fully intact because of their irreducible complexity, or evolved from other memes.

...

"Just look at "All Your Base Are Belong To Us", it is too complex to have been created by chance. The odds against that are 50 eleventy trillion to 1. There must have been an intelligent designer."

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by Lucidus

Oh joy. I can't wait until we have the debate about whether memes were created by a higher power fully intact because of their irreducible complexity, or evolved from other memes.

...

"Just look at "All Your Base Are Belong To Us", it is too complex to have been created by chance. The odds against that are 50 eleventy trillion to 1. There must have been an intelligent designer."

It's going to be grand isn't it? But, the sad thing is that there is actually an intelligent designer behind it in a sense. The human being as an intelligent thing is what is driving all of these memes. However we must be careful at the unnecessary duplicity that this can mean because it is usually not a conscious, collective effort - although some things like the Manson followers could be considered as being driven under the truck by a most horrible conscious, collective meme.