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Old 05-12-2009, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esselcue View Post
People...the human brain...can do many amazing things. Not sure if it's just the electricity that makes us "tick" or if it's something more, but we as humans can accomplish a lot of "magical" things if we believe it hard enough. This is why "prayer" sometimes seems to work. Shamans and mystics probably rely more on that sort of "hypnosis" than anything else. It is found that an positive attitude can heal a sick person, whereas a depressed and negative person can "will" themselves to die. It's a physical thing and a part of the whole mystery of being human.
Well stated. The most amazing chance development in the evolution of humans was the establishment of whatever oddball neuronal connections allow us to think abstractly, to conceptualize things far into the future, to ponder our past mistakes and the implications of the past, present and future.

One of those things was to assume, since we were so d@mned smart, that, of course we could "do things" with our minds. Some prayers coincidentally answered, someone "sees" their old Aunt Tilly, someone feels they have actually, physically, spoken to a mythical spiritual figure.

It was perhaps Roxolan who noted the link to that $1M Paranormal Challenge, started in 1968, where a prize has been offered to ANYONE who could provide a bona-fide example of any paranormal action. Move or bend a fork, read a page from the room next door, send directions with your mind to a blindfolded person in another town who is in a maze, heal someone's cancer, etc. All under controlled conditions. So far (predictably), no winners.... Never will be, frankly.

This does not discount that our minds can have an influence within ourselves. Far from it. Our "state of mind" [depressed, anxious, fearful or full of rage, and on and on] has a strong influence. and so, anything that has an effect on our senses will obviously directly affect our well-being, our sense of position and, in some cases, power over others.

The power of prayer may be most effective in it's potential influence on the spiritual health of the target individual. They know for instance, that the entire congregation of their friends are all praying for their recovery. They may have given up or given in to the depressing aspects of their disease or their situation, and for sure the body responds to a sense of well being versus a depressed mental state. Hence, yes, prayer can have positive effects.

Thus, the indian medicine man, chanting and dancing around the near-fatally wounded local warrior, leading to his revival.

I met and got to know an Inupiat shaman in a small village near Inuvik in the (once) NW Territories in Canada. He was an older, slightly oddball character, but he took me out way out of town on his snow machine and talked to me about the tundra, the wildlife and the intensely intertwined interactions between a people who had evolved their culture there, in a place as far north as humans have or could ever live, under the most demanding environmental conditions.

Google Image Result for http://arcticcircle.uconn.edu/HistoryCulture/Inupiat/images/kaktovikchildpipe.gif

They had no choice but to integrate with the flow of nature up there and so had become especially tuned to its variations, the subtle changes in it's moods, it's "reactions" to things. Of course, there was a strong element of mythology built in. The various gods and the shadows of the legendary old tribal members who had departed to the spirit world, but who also showed up, visibly & conveniently only to shamans, to provide sage advice.

That connectivity within the shaman community was interesting to observe, because it showed an element of our human nature: to take the reins of power when they are offered to us. It can only be achieved through mysticism (the understanding of which is, perforce, limited to a select few) such that the larger community can not generally partake.

This shaman hated the encroachment of the whites, the Hudson Bay Company, and of learning. The local white priest / teacher in the then-mandated Indian schools strongly disciplined the children if he even heard them talking about the old days and the old ways. This arrogance forever tainted the relationships between the Inupiat and us interloper whites, with our dreaded question-answering "science". Within his community, this man was "god", and his ancestors knew and revered that relationship.

It was foolish of the arrogant Catholic French-Canadian priests to try to step in and have their version of a mystical figure take over. In case they are still blissfully unaware, it didn't "take" with these people; the Inupiat people just smile, nod and go on with their long-held and far more practical spirituality.

The knowledge that this wonderful man was able to impart to my previously sheltered Western mind was spiritually altering, and became part of my own larger, naturally-oriented "spirituality". Long live the shaman!

Last edited by rifleman; 05-12-2009 at 11:23 AM.. Reason: typoz
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:08 AM
 
11,155 posts, read 15,703,499 times
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I suspect our developed civilization is on the brink of understanding scientifically what such indigenous cultures have understood since time immemorial spiritually: the power of the energy that binds all of life to create extraordinary results.

I would differ on the above assertion that people necessarily "will" things to happen. I have simply opened myself to allow whatever reality might be out there and have had many things happen to me that had nothing to do with my desires or wishes.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:57 AM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,519,340 times
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Originally Posted by Ole Meph View Post
I am sorry if I gave the impression of too much ego. I was just attempting to state the facts that have occurred as the result of my two year search for others who have had extrovertive mystic experiences. I am not looking for a teacher, nor a guru. I am simply looking for others to share with.

fair enough. i could only go by reading your words very thoroughly ....
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:55 PM
 
49 posts, read 61,265 times
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Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
Ole Meph, I did not feel that you had any agenda, my statement was merely to say that you need to look beyond the confines of science, because science alone cannot explain it and there are individuals out there among us that are beyond any scientific label, your two-year study is just merely the tip of the iceberg as they say. Keep an open mind and listen.
Thank you again. Allow me to clarify. I have searched for the answer to existential questions since the age of 18. I am now age 65. Since my single ME about two years ago I have pursued the study of that subject. I have studied most available resources and concluded early on that science had 'no' answers in this regard. My mind is totally open. At least as open as I am capable of being. I am totally ready to listen. Does anyone out there have a willingness to share?
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:01 PM
 
49 posts, read 61,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
I think I know what you mean, but I've never heard the phrase "extrovertive mystical experience" or "introvertive". Could you offer your definition.

The most profound experiences I have had would, I suspect, fall under extrovertive - in that they were experiences involving physical persons and objects beyond myself, yet they were unaware of the role they were playing in guiding me. (as opposed to a guru that is very consciously guiding one through an experience). I would define such experiences as anything from a paritcular magazine article to a conversation that reveals the next step of my journey to a new job predicated by guidance leading to that job.
Extrovertive mystical experiences, sometimes called nature mysticism refers to transcendental experiences that occur spontaneously. While relatively rare, they tend to occur to artistic types, though not always, and often in nature or natural settings. The word extrovertive suggests that these experiences are triggered from without and not sought after by meditation, prayer or other systematic methods. They may be a result of a creative process. If you google 'extrovertive mystical experiences' you will find a lot of information on the subject. The experiences vary but have a number of core similarities.
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Old 05-13-2009, 02:30 AM
 
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explanation given, interest vanished! that's what any halfway seasoned "teacher" today can easily spot before accepting a student.

along with the spirits and who may have known them being called ....

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Old 05-13-2009, 09:28 AM
 
49 posts, read 61,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by effie briest View Post
explanation given, interest vanished! that's what any halfway seasoned "teacher" today can easily spot before accepting a student.

along with the spirits and who may have known them being called ....

Very cryptic post. Are you looking for students on this forum? Good luck
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:49 AM
 
19 posts, read 37,263 times
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Transcedentalism?

Hah. More like someone's figured out how to tap their dopamine supply through thought alone.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:51 AM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,519,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Meph View Post
Very cryptic post. Are you looking for students on this forum? Good luck
! dunno of any plump advertising strategies. too far removed from all that!
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:05 PM
 
11,155 posts, read 15,703,499 times
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Originally Posted by Zaptruder View Post
Transcedentalism?

Hah. More like someone's figured out how to tap their dopamine supply through thought alone.
Then you probably haven't experienced it yet.
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