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The essence of the argument from God is being missed and misconstrued. You are all correct that morals are arbitrary for atheists . . . which simply means they do not exist at all. Whoever has the gold or power decides all the moral issues, etc., etc. For their to be morality or values . . . there has to be a purpose. That which is constructive to the purpose is moral (has value) . . . that which is destructive to the purpose is immoral (has no value). Since atheists believe there is no purpose for humankind's existence (cosmic accident . . . random occurrence . . . law of large numbers . . . whatever) . . . there can be no morality. Whether we "accidents" continue to procreate and evolve or destroy ourselves and our environment completely is irrelevant . . . since accidents have no reason to be here in the first place. ONLY if there is a purpose for humankind can there be morality . . . THAT requires God (Creator . . . purpose-giver) . . . GENERICALLY. All the believers are saying is that those of you who profess morality . . . IMPLICITLY believe there is some raison d'etre for humankind . . . i.e. God..
The essence of the argument from God is being missed and misconstrued. You are all correct that morals are arbitrary for atheists . . . which simply means they do not exist at all. Whoever has the gold or power decides all the moral issues, etc., etc. For their to be morality or values . . . there has to be a purpose. That which is constructive to the purpose is moral (has value) . . . that which is destructive to the purpose is immoral (has no value). Since atheists believe there is no purpose for humankind's existence (cosmic accident . . . random occurrence . . . law of large numbers . . . whatever) . . . there can be no morality. Whether we "accidents" continue to procreate and evolve or destroy ourselves and our environment completely is irrelevant . . . since accidents have no reason to be here in the first place. ONLY if there is a purpose for humankind can there be morality . . . THAT requires God (Creator . . . purpose-giver) . . . GENERICALLY. All the believers are saying is that those of you who profess morality . . . IMPLICITLY believe there is some raison d'etre for humankind . . . i.e. God..
Patently ridiculous. And incredibly arrogant. You obviously have no notion of what morality is. Another false premise masking as logic.
My point is this: What is the atheist foundation for absolute morals .
Well, let's start with the word "absolute" shall we. I suspect this is more of a christer term than an atheist one. As a rule, not absolute by any means, I have found it is better to be civil, it makes interaction with others easier. It has nothing to do with right or wrong, it is simply the path of least resistance. Also, "be polite" works fairly well too. Of course, in the 60's while I vacationed on Parris Island, S.C. politeness seemed to take on an entirely new meaning. I was taught that there is a time to "not be polite" and that any action in defense of myself, my buddies, or my country need not necessarily be polite, in fact, often times it was positively rude. I was later placed in positions in which, politeness would have gotten me and others, killed. I have never needed a "gawd" to tell me it may not be nice to kill, somehow I figured that out for myself. I am polite because, I choose to be, not out of necessity or fear. I was taught by experience to be polite until someone tries to harm me or others, at this point, do what needs to be done. Mythological beasties play no part in my decision making.
Patently ridiculous. And incredibly arrogant. You obviously have no notion of what morality is. Another false premise masking as logic.
Which you have clearly demonstrated . . . no wait . . . you just declared it so! Hmmmm . . . where have I seen that tactic before. How DO you assign a non-Arbitrary value to actions, then?
If we consider the concept of God as simply a powerful force that exists in and of all life, then in my experience absolute morality does not come from some "God" out there and it can be accessed through atheism, religion, or spirituality.
Instead, it is the pinnacle of conscious evolution. A highly evolved consciousness moves beyond any desire to kill, to steal, to cheat, etc... because that individual knows how to attract all that she needs without harming or taking from others, so there is simply no need for moral rules or codes.
The core problem with religion is it seeks to stop the process toward that elevated state short by dictating rules. Then, you get people suppressing who they really are and having it forced out in most unsavory ways.
Just look at Catholic priests. While a highly evolved person has little desire for physical sexuality (they operate on a spiritual sexuality that blows the physical out of the water), a normal person forced to arrest his sexual expression will do horrible things such as the priests have done to little boys. They aren't intrinsically bad people, just good people stuck in a very bad system.
That can be said for a lot of the strict right-and-wrong religious doctrines.
The essence of the argument from God is being missed and misconstrued. You are all correct that morals are arbitrary for atheists . . . which simply means they do not exist at all. Whoever has the gold or power decides all the moral issues, etc., etc. For their to be morality or values . . . there has to be a purpose. That which is constructive to the purpose is moral (has value) . . . that which is destructive to the purpose is immoral (has no value). Since atheists believe there is no purpose for humankind's existence (cosmic accident . . . random occurrence . . . law of large numbers . . . whatever) . . . there can be no morality. Whether we "accidents" continue to procreate and evolve or destroy ourselves and our environment completely is irrelevant . . . since accidents have no reason to be here in the first place. ONLY if there is a purpose for humankind can there be morality . . . THAT requires God (Creator . . . purpose-giver) . . . GENERICALLY. All the believers are saying is that those of you who profess morality . . . IMPLICITLY believe there is some raison d'etre for humankind . . . i.e. God..
I'm not sure why or how compassion requires purpose. Why is that necessary again?
If we consider the concept of God as simply a powerful force that exists in and of all life, then in my experience absolute morality does not come from some "God" out there and it can be accessed through atheism, religion, or spirituality.
Instead, it is the pinnacle of conscious evolution. A highly evolved consciousness moves beyond any desire to kill, to steal, to cheat, etc... because that individual knows how to attract all that she needs without harming or taking from others, so there is simply no need for moral rules or codes.
The core problem with religion is it seeks to stop the process toward that elevated state short by dictating rules. Then, you get people suppressing who they really are and having it forced out in most unsavory ways.
Just look at Catholic priests. While a highly evolved person has little desire for physical sexuality (they operate on a spiritual sexuality that blows the physical out of the water), a normal person forced to arrest his sexual expression will do horrible things such as the priests have done to little boys. They aren't intrinsically bad people, just good people stuck in a very bad system.
That can be said for a lot of the strict right-and-wrong religious doctrines.
Here again, the whole argument starts from a false premise - that there is any such thing as absolute morality. Each society defines its own morality. Declaring it is from god is simply a device to exert the force of fear over individual behavior. But who declares that this god set down the morals? Humans who wish to exert their beliefs on others.
Societies also set out moral standards without using the force of a mythical deity. We call those laws and manners. No god is needed or called upon to set out these boundaries. A philosophy of fairness and kindness is all that is needed to set about secular laws and teach manners. Few religions actually are based on these morals.
Were there any absolute morality to be had, then all peoples would come to the same conclusions about what is right and wrong. But they do not. It varies wildly and contradictorily.
The so-called higher evolved being is once again a claim of superiority without basis. There are many not very bright people who live their lives in kindness and whom few could call immoral. They don't really think about it, they just are kind-hearted people. How is all the obfuscation in the world and attempts to self-justify and condemn others superior morality to this?
Also, while I agree with the unnaturalness of the catholic priesthood strictures, they do not drive all of them to victimize children. Were the premise true as stated, then most would behave in this way. But that is not true. I could easily argue that they are bad people - they have chosen to prey on those under their care. They have choices just like all the priests who choose not to behave like that, or even leave the priesthood so that they can live a more normal life.
"Were there any absolute morality to be had, then all peoples would come to the same conclusions about what is right and wrong."
Are you saying that people can't make mistakes? It is because we CAN make mistakes that morality is needed. "Morality pertains only to the sphere of man’s free will—only to those actions which are open to his choice."
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Morality does not exist for atheists
And incredibly arrogant. You obviously have no notion of what morality is. Another false premise masking as logic.
