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Old 11-16-2009, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Missouri
4,272 posts, read 3,786,482 times
Reputation: 1937

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The convincing evidence of evolution for me happens when the weather changes. When it gets cold I put on a coat. When it gets warm I don't wear a coat. During the winter I continuously wear a coat; in the summer I never do. If it stayed cold I would wear the coat all of the time. It's not hard for me to think that if it stayed cold for a very long time during the existence of my forebears, that I would have been born with similar characteristics to the arctic region dwellers of today.

It doesn't matter what it's called, science or faith, theory or heresy, it makes sense to me.
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Old 12-09-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,405,136 times
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We are one gene from being monkeys, and given the monkey culture we live in I think that proves it.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,803 posts, read 8,747,686 times
Reputation: 3022
Evolution in action, with, I might add, the fossilized evidence to back it up.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Bison antiquus.

Sometimes called the ancient bison, it was the most common large herbivore of the North American continent for over ten thousand years, and is a direct ancestor of the living American bison.

During the Pleistocene Ice Age, Bison priscus migrated from Siberia into Alaska. This species then developed into the long-horned bison, Bison latifrons which lived in North America for 3 million years. About 22,000 years ago (henceforth known as kya), the long-horned bison slowly died out making way for Bison antiquus. B. antiquus were abundant from 18 kya until about 10 kya when they became extinct, along with most of the Pleistocene megafauna. B. antiquus is the most commonly recovered herbivore from the La Brea tar pits.

B. antiquus was taller, had larger bones and horns and was 15-25% larger overall than modern bison. From tip to tip, the horns of B. antiquus measured approximately 3 feet (nearly one meter).

Bison priscus - Quaternary - extinct in the late Pleistocene




Bison latifrons - 3mya - 22kya



Bison antiquus 18kya - 10kya



Bison bison - 10kya to present



And for comparison:



Modern bison vs. Bison antiquus

Hmmm....
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:44 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,087 posts, read 20,697,383 times
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Thank you Kele. V. nice post. Yes it is proof of evolution within species. Even Creationists accept that (Except the Pepper - moth - is - a - fake loonies) as 'micro - evolution'. What they don't accept is that, over enough time, Micro can become Macro, and one species can change into another. Not because there is any less evidence for it but because it contradicts a literalist reading of Genesis.
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,912,983 times
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Cool does it hurt that much when the truth pops you up-side the head?

"And if you persist with these delusions, The Lord, with my help, will strik-eth thou down-est!"

Scared?

The most compelling evidence for evolution now, is everything around us, given that we now have the ability to look into the DNA lineage of any living organism we can "sample" and, to a point, follow it back through time, and notice the various stages supported by fossil, or even museum, samples.

The old idea of finding some "Missing Link", determined strictly by physical attributes (hard to do precisely from a shattered skeleton, or with only, say, 24% of the skeleton in hand) is quite passe now. It was too hard to accomplish, created too many compromises, and it suggested that evolution proceeded step-wise, stumbling along without direction.

This was perversely and gleefully modified into: Here, one day, you had a certain type of cat. Then, within the next generation, you had an entirely different type of cat. or, as they so often request, a dog.

Whereas, if we had a perfectly preserved set of all the cats from Cat A [tiger, for ex.] to Cat B (highland snow leopard, for ex.) we'd see all of those contiguous (attached, maintained) micro changes that led, inexorably, to the macro-changes.

Isn't it funny that Christian anti-evolutionists agree with the lab-provable part, but won't accept the real-world proven part? We know why they have to agree with the "micro" part: its been proven. But now, DNA lineage tracking has, ditto, proven the "macro" part. With all the consequences "attendant thereto"!
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,331 posts, read 5,954,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Modern bison vs. Bison antiquus

Hmmm....
Dang, those buffalo are making me hungy.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,912,983 times
Reputation: 3767
Default When do we leave?

Yeah; I'd like to connect with some of my evolved and genetically hard-wired behaviors and go out next year with my custom black powder 45-90 Sharps and stalk one of them. (No, I'm not young enough any more to do it with a spear and ten other guys running & screaming across the plains....)

http://uweb.txstate.edu/~rw04/intro/...UNT-CLYMER.JPG

And then field-dress it and eventually, grunt happily around the campfire as I munch on a bit of medium-rare peppered sirloin, nicely roasted with wild potatoes and onions.

Oh, and some of my own sourdough bread.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,524 posts, read 37,125,817 times
Reputation: 13998
Restaurant in Saskatoon....

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Old 12-17-2009, 06:52 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,803 posts, read 8,747,686 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
Dang, those buffalo are making me hungy.
I know....is there anything better than a bison steak?

I don't usually eat meat, but for bison, I'll break that little taboo....

Oh, and rifleman? Hunting buffalo with a gun is no sport at all....
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Old 12-19-2009, 10:39 PM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,531,821 times
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There is no "slam dunk" if you're trying to convince someone who doesn't want to believe in it. In fact, many people who debate evolution's existence (in favor of "Intelligent Design," aka Creationism) don't even know WHAT it is because they've never read about it, or when they did, they were thinking "these scientists don't know what they're talking about, LALALALALA." Most people actually refer to abiogenesis, because it later ties in to evolution and how man evolved from similar sources as apes. They try to disprove abiogenesis, and then say they've disproved evolution (even though they're separate theories). Since they think abiogenesis is apart of the theory of evolution, that if some shred of data shows something in their favor, the entire theory is disproved. It's ludicrous, really. When I hear the phrases "evolution is false," and "primordial ooze just doesn't sound probable," that's when I say "yeah, they don't know what they're talking about." Evolution=how new species are made and change over time, abiogenesis=how life in general could have formed. I've tried to tell people who discredit evolution this for years, but they don't care. They think scientists are out to destroy religion and make everyone "Godless heathens."

Your best hope is to get people who don't side with either view, are irreligious or cold to luke warm in their own religious practices, and have an open mind. Some people will say "maybe 'Intelligent Design' may have some merit, and I'd like to hear both sides." They're not unintelligent, per se, just naive and over trusting, because science and its theories have been distorted in society. Even the word "theory" carries a different definition and weight in the scientific community vs general, daily life. The best thing to do is set them down and explain why Creationism... I mean "intelligent design," doesn't fit in the scientific method. Like, the fact that its final result has already been formed, very clearly and descriptively, and they just want to fit in details with pseudoscience. Explain how the scientific method works, and detail HOW ID goes against that method. Explain how evolution fits the scientific method and what evidence has been presented. Explain what a theory in the scientific sense is. Also explain concisely and clearly what evolution is, even showing them within a biology text, as many outside influences will distort their view on what it is (such as how LIFE was created vs speciation and progressive change in species, because outside influences define these things incorrectly). Show them how "intelligent design" can't be a valid scientific theory. If they are open minded, they will listen and most probably understand. They will understand how it doesn't go against deism (some are deists because of their own personal experience and you must respect that or at least refrain from insult, as long as they do the same). This is the best method for getting people to support education of evolution, and to go against "intelligent design" curricula.

I was once a young one, and this worked for me at age 13 with my bio teacher. No yelling, no belittling of anyone, just unlearning of the scientific process defined outside the classroom and new learning of REAL science. About 18 out of 22 of us in the class "got it," and didn't feel threatened by it (many of these folks came from religious backgrounds, and about half of us agreed with evolution and about 15 of us thought ID should be taught. After, 18/22 were fine with it, and only 4 of us continued to think ID should be taught as an "alternate scientific explanation" which is the same number that weren't fine with it after because of rigid beliefs).
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