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My husband, who is black, has more white friends than black friends, and this has been true the entire 19 years I've known him... our four kids were raised in a mostly, if not all, white culture until just a few years ago. When my husband's mother died in 2000, after his father had died years earlier, he lost contact with his family altogether. Although we met and got married in Atlanta, we moved back to Minnesota when we were expecting our first child in 1991.
A few years ago my husband started feeling like he was missing something, and indeed he was, he was missing his true identity as a black man.
I had actually been making the argument for a couple of years already that I thought we needed to get the kids in a more culturally diverse environment, because they are, afterall, 1/2 black. Three years ago we moved into an urban neighborhood which is significantly more minority, and more black, than where we had been living in the suburbs.
My husband got back in touch with his family. He started attending the church I had been attending, which is one of the most racially integrated congregations in Minnesota. He started working out at a YMCA in a mostly black neighborhood, he got a new job where a lot of his co-workers are black.
You know what? I have NEVER seen my husband happier or more at peace with himself. As he has gotten back in touch with his black side, I have seen a side of him I never knew existed, and I've come to understand and appreciate and love the black culture more than ever - in fact I didn't really understand or appreciate black culture until very recently... but I have loved my husband for nearly 20 years... so the lovin' part came easy!
There is a certain "keepin' it real" -ness factor in black culture which has always been a part of my husband which has, in fact, been a source of friction in our relationship from the get go. Now that I recognize the fact this approach or attitude of his is a part of his culturally heritage, I understand him much better and I'm more receptive to his bluntness and straight talk - which happens oftentimes in areas I feel call for more diplomacy. In fact, he would "call it out" time and time again in situations where I felt it was best to not say anything. On the other hand, I will share stuff in many areas where he feels it's important to not share one's business... we've had countless scrimages like this over the years and it's just recently that we've come to understand, and appreciate, the cultural, both black/white and south/white, underpinnings of our differences.
I kind of believe, for the past few years, my husband has been a journey of self-discovery which is about to culminating in a homecoming of sorts... we are now making plans to move back to Atlanta.
My husband can't wait to get home and live amongst black folks again... yes, there are black people in Minnesota, but for a black man who was born and raised in the south - there is not enough of a black presence in Minnesota.
How did my husband get to the point of living almost exclusively in a white culture?
My husband's best friends from when he was about 10 years old, through high school and beyond ,were white kids. This was in SE Georgia. His parents moved into a mostly-white neighborhood of mostly northern transplants when he was ten... The white kids in his neighborhood became his best friends... the kids in his neighborhood also, very quickly, became his ONLY friends. Why was this? Because the black kids did not take kindly to a black kid making nice with a bunch of white kids... my husband was jumped and beat up by black kids on more than one occasion. These experiences only made my husband draw further away from black folks and assimilate himself even moreso into white culture. By the time I met him, he "acted white". Since I myself had grown up in an all-white culture, in a small town in Minnesota, and I was still quite young when we met... I didn't even recognize the fact he "acted white." I was not very familiar with black culture back then, to say the least. I also didn't recognize the many of the frictions we had in our relationship stemmed from the fact he is, at his core, both a black man and a southerner.
We moved back to Minnesota, initially to the small town I had grown up in, he was the ONLY black guy in town, and my husband effectively hide his "black side" deep down inside of himself... The assimilating into white culture part was something he'd gotten so good at he was foolin' even himself... but his true self eventually bubbled to the surface.
++++
The big difference I see between my husband and your girlfriend is the fact he was raised in the south, and she was not... Your gf may not ever be comfortable living in the south, because in the south, not too many blacks will accept other blacks who do not fully identify with being black.
As others have said, the south is largely, self-segragated. Both the black and the whites prefer it this way... this is why this board often has threads started by people looking to find an integrated neighborhood, because it's not easy to find an integrated neighborhood in Georgia.
My own brother-in-law told me he did not come to our wedding because I am white. He does not approve of inter-racial dating. You'd think the fact his brother and I have been together for nearly 20 years would be worth something in his eyes... not really. My BIL says he has never had, and never will have, a white friend.
This is the type of reality you have to accept if you are going to be an inter-racial couple living in Georgia. It's a changin', but change comes very slowly in the south. It's like this: in the south they are fixin' to someday, maybe, perhaps, when they are feelin' it, doing a something a little differently... maybe.
The fact is, your gf very likely will NOT do well living in Atlanta at this point and time in her life journey. As a white woman married to a black man, please believe me when I say this: she knows better than you ever could what she will be up against if she were to move to the south!
In the south, and in black culture in particular, if some people think your gf is not "keepin' it real" they will not HESITATE to call her out on it... they will call her out and they will take her to the carpet. In a heartbeat.
Trust your gf's judgment on this one!
++++
My advise is that you take a look at Minneapolis, specifically the Whittier/Uptown neighborhoods, and some of the urban renewal projects moving east from that area and north into downtown. Northeast Mpls is a GREAT community, and very affordable. Worth a look. We lived in the Whittier neighborhood for years and, looking back, those were the best 6 years of our marriage. Minnesota is affordable, it's a place where you can pursue an education and get a leg up on life, Minneapolis is liberal and becoming more and more diverse. Public transportation sucks, winters suck - unless you are the type of person who has a craving to live somewhere that has four distinct seasons.
We never got hassle from black or whites about being an inter-racial couple while we were living in Minneapolis, indeed anywhere in the Twin Cities or Minnesota at large. We had the most "couple friends" and best neighborhood friends while we were living in the Whittier neighborhood. Any and all racial segregation in Minnesota is moreso socio-economical segregation, meaning the really poor neighborhoods tend to be the predominately black & minority neighborhoods.
Seattle is another city I would recommend you look into... Best wishes to you and your fiancee!
Last edited by StPaulEastSider; 04-30-2009 at 02:41 PM..
Ok, what the heck does "acting white" mean? I really hate that term. If you two have only been around black people who "are ignorant and act so damn foolish", you guys really need to get out more. Honestly, if you're girlfriend has it in her head that she will not and does not want to associate with black people, she probably won't be happy here, unless she moves out to the burbs. However, I would never recommend the Alpharetta area for anyone childless under 25 (black, white, or whatever), unless they work there, or are totally not into nightlife/singles, etc. And can you afford the area? What profession are you two in (I say this since you mention you are young and degree-less)? The median income for Alpharetta is pretty high.
When I walk through Piedmont Park on the weekends I see a significant number of interracial couples. Sometimes it seems like there are more interracial couples than same-race couples. I don't know much about Alpharetta (I've never been), but perhaps City of Decatur could work?
That said, if she's opposed to all of Metro Atlanta then, from what I've heard, Austin might meet your criteria too. That also might be an easier sale if she's genuinely uncomfortable with other black Americans.
I know. I chose to ignore this statment, but glad you posed this question. I also dislike the term "opposite race." Race is not binary. But certan entrenched phrases and concepts die hard.
Ok... someone came in here and made a somewhat racist statement, to a post that was nearly TWO YEARS OLD.
That comment has been removed, but folks, chances are the original poster isn't still monitoring this thread two years later to see any additional replies. Just FYI.
Ok... someone came in here and made a somewhat racist statement, to a post that was nearly TWO YEARS OLD.
That comment has been removed, but folks, chances are the original poster isn't still monitoring this thread two years later to see any additional replies. Just FYI.
Ugh... I love to be helpful, but I hate to waste my time!
My husband, who is black, has more white friends than black friends, and this has been true the entire 19 years I've known him... our four kids were raised in a mostly, if not all, white culture until just a few years ago. When my husband's mother died in 2000, after his father had died years earlier, he lost contact with his family altogether. Although we met and got married in Atlanta, we moved back to Minnesota when we were expecting our first child in 1991.
A few years ago my husband started feeling like he was missing something, and indeed he was, he was missing his true identity as a black man.
I had actually been making the argument for a couple of years already that I thought we needed to get the kids in a more culturally diverse environment, because they are, afterall, 1/2 black. Three years ago we moved into an urban neighborhood which is significantly more minority, and more black, than where we had been living in the suburbs.
My husband got back in touch with his family. He started attending the church I had been attending, which is one of the most racially integrated congregations in Minnesota. He started working out at a YMCA in a mostly black neighborhood, he got a new job where a lot of his co-workers are black.
You know what? I have NEVER seen my husband happier or more at peace with himself. As he has gotten back in touch with his black side, I have seen a side of him I never knew existed, and I've come to understand and appreciate and love the black culture more than ever - in fact I didn't really understand or appreciate black culture until very recently... but I have loved my husband for nearly 20 years... so the lovin' part came easy!
There is a certain "keepin' it real" -ness factor in black culture which has always been a part of my husband which has, in fact, been a source of friction in our relationship from the get go. Now that I recognize the fact this approach or attitude of his is a part of his culturally heritage, I understand him much better and I'm more receptive to his bluntness and straight talk - which happens oftentimes in areas I feel call for more diplomacy. In fact, he would "call it out" time and time again in situations where I felt it was best to not say anything. On the other hand, I will share stuff in many areas where he feels it's important to not share one's business... we've had countless scrimages like this over the years and it's just recently that we've come to understand, and appreciate, the cultural, both black/white and south/white, underpinnings of our differences.
I kind of believe, for the past few years, my husband has been a journey of self-discovery which is about to culminating in a homecoming of sorts... we are now making plans to move back to Atlanta.
My husband can't wait to get home and live amongst black folks again... yes, there are black people in Minnesota, but for a black man who was born and raised in the south - there is not enough of a black presence in Minnesota.
How did my husband get to the point of living almost exclusively in a white culture?
My husband's best friends from when he was about 10 years old, through high school and beyond ,were white kids. This was in SE Georgia. His parents moved into a mostly-white neighborhood of mostly northern transplants when he was ten... The white kids in his neighborhood became his best friends... the kids in his neighborhood also, very quickly, became his ONLY friends. Why was this? Because the black kids did not take kindly to a black kid making nice with a bunch of white kids... my husband was jumped and beat up by black kids on more than one occasion. These experiences only made my husband draw further away from black folks and assimilate himself even moreso into white culture. By the time I met him, he "acted white". Since I myself had grown up in an all-white culture, in a small town in Minnesota, and I was still quite young when we met... I didn't even recognize the fact he "acted white." I was not very familiar with black culture back then, to say the least. I also didn't recognize the many of the frictions we had in our relationship stemmed from the fact he is, at his core, both a black man and a southerner.
We moved back to Minnesota, initially to the small town I had grown up in, he was the ONLY black guy in town, and my husband effectively hide his "black side" deep down inside of himself... The assimilating into white culture part was something he'd gotten so good at he was foolin' even himself... but his true self eventually bubbled to the surface.
++++
The big difference I see between my husband and your girlfriend is the fact he was raised in the south, and she was not... Your gf may not ever be comfortable living in the south, because in the south, not too many blacks will accept other blacks who do not fully identify with being black.
As others have said, the south is largely, self-segragated. Both the black and the whites prefer it this way... this is why this board often has threads started by people looking to find an integrated neighborhood, because it's not easy to find an integrated neighborhood in Georgia.
My own brother-in-law told me he did not come to our wedding because I am white. He does not approve of inter-racial dating. You'd think the fact his brother and I have been together for nearly 20 years would be worth something in his eyes... not really. My BIL says he has never had, and never will have, a white friend.
This is the type of reality you have to accept if you are going to be an inter-racial couple living in Georgia. It's a changin', but change comes very slowly in the south. It's like this: in the south they are fixin' to someday, maybe, perhaps, when they are feelin' it, doing a something a little differently... maybe.
The fact is, your gf very likely will NOT do well living in Atlanta at this point and time in her life journey. As a white woman married to a black man, please believe me when I say this: she knows better than you ever could what she will be up against if she were to move to the south!
In the south, and in black culture in particular, if some people think your gf is not "keepin' it real" they will not HESITATE to call her out on it... they will call her out and they will take her to the carpet. In a heartbeat.
Trust your gf's judgment on this one!
++++
My advise is that you take a look at Minneapolis, specifically the Whittier/Uptown neighborhoods, and some of the urban renewal projects moving east from that area and north into downtown. Northeast Mpls is a GREAT community, and very affordable. Worth a look. We lived in the Whittier neighborhood for years and, looking back, those were the best 6 years of our marriage. Minnesota is affordable, it's a place where you can pursue an education and get a leg up on life, Minneapolis is liberal and becoming more and more diverse. Public transportation sucks, winters suck - unless you are the type of person who has a craving to live somewhere that has four distinct seasons.
We never got hassle from black or whites about being an inter-racial couple while we were living in Minneapolis, indeed anywhere in the Twin Cities or Minnesota at large. We had the most "couple friends" and best neighborhood friends while we were living in the Whittier neighborhood. Any and all racial segregation in Minnesota is moreso socio-economical segregation, meaning the really poor neighborhoods tend to be the predominately black & minority neighborhoods.
Seattle is another city I would recommend you look into... Best wishes to you and your fiancee!
Your observations are obviously well thought out.I applaud you in your openminded attitude to see what was going on in your husbands life.But I cannot say I would agree that as you said it is hard to find an integrated neighborhood here in Georgia.Maybe in more rural parts but I have grown up in Georgia and many of my friends were both white and black.My parents made sure I was exposed to my black culture because where we lived was mostly white.I never had any problems growing up.Today I choose to by a house in a more urban setting(majority black)but the majority of my friends are Europeans,Indians and Africans.
Yes there is a lot of self segregation,but you do have a choice.Its not like people even pay attention to interacial couples.Its very common.Whatever you chose there is something for everybody at least in the Atlanta area.
Your observations are obviously well thought out.I applaud you in your openminded attitude to see what was going on in your husbands life.But I cannot say I would agree that as you said it is hard to find an integrated neighborhood here in Georgia.Maybe in more rural parts but I have grown up in Georgia and many of my friends were both white and black.My parents made sure I was exposed to my black culture because where we lived was mostly white.I never had any problems growing up.Today I choose to by a house in a more urban setting(majority black)but the majority of my friends are Europeans,Indians and Africans.
Yes there is a lot of self segregation,but you do have a choice.Its not like people even pay attention to interacial couples.Its very common.Whatever you chose there is something for everybody at least in the Atlanta area.
I am wondering how old you are, my husband is 43, I'm thinking he may have experienced more problems w/being a black guy w/white friends when he was growing up because he was in school back in the 70s / early 80s.
I guess I am basing a lot of my opinions regarding the difficulties of finding an integrated INTOWN neighborhood on this thread. The stated goal of the OP in that thread is to find a craftsman-style home, 300k max, in an Intown neighborhood with good schools, which is also racially diverse... this is what she had to say about what she was finding:
Quote:
So far, this is what Im actually finding:
-if the home is great (for me this means, newer or renovated craftsman style) and actually in my budget, the n'hood is sketchy, and the local public schools are not doing well
-if the local schools are great, the homes are small, the n'hood is more affluent white and low income AA
-if the homes are large, the nhood is middle class AA and the local schools are decent, it's located way in the woods (my current situation and NOT diverse
I understand her struggle, as a parent of AA/bi kids, I don't want all their examples of AA's to be low income AAs - this sends the wrong message.
So, I do think there is a struggle to find an affordable [under 250-300k] middle-class, intregated neighborhood, with good schools, and with a significant AAmiddle-class presence.
Yeah, I know I'm putting a lot of qualifiers on the neighborhood/socio-economic/diversity requirements - but that's what parents tend to do when they are seeking out the ideal environment for raising their family. If you don't have kids, you probably are not as picky about where you live.
I think some of the very newest "urban renewal" or "gentrification" neighborhoods hold the most promise for truely intregated neighborhoods within Intown ATL.
I really don't know about suburban neighborhoods in and around ATL, that hasn't been the focus of my research since we have no plans to move to the suburbs of ATL.
I do agree that inter-racial couples are pretty much left alone in ATL, but when we have received flak, it's usually been from the black community. For example, black women who get all 'tuddie once they realize I'm married to a black man - when they were just fine prior to the revelation. My aforementioned BIL... but the tension is very minimal.
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. I don't know much about Alpharetta (I've never been), but perhaps City of Decatur could work?
