Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Henry /Douglas Counties will have/ have had rapid growth; Fayette County with their decades old slow growth model will never have "rapid growth" and THAT is by design. Fayette is determined to stay rural/ semi-rural and instead are focusing on "quality" instead of "quantity" growth (such as Pinewood studios, etc) Outside of the city limits of Fayette's cities, the minimum lot size is over an acre I believe.
At Moreland, its less than a mile from I-20 to the MARTA line. Its only about 2 miles at Candler. So if you build BRT with stops in there, you are taking some of the same people who would otherwise ride the MARTA blue or green lines. There definitely isn't the density in that area to justify 2 separate HRT lines so close together.
As for the BRT comment, again, it will be pretty close to HRT in a relatively low density area, so I wonder how much ridership it will really generate. Closer in, people will just take a more convenient local bus. Further out, the BRT will be partly competing with HRT along DeKalb Avenue.
Henry /Douglas Counties will have/ have had rapid growth; Fayette County with their decades old slow growth model will never have "rapid growth" and THAT is by design. Fayette is determined to stay rural/ semi-rural and instead are focusing on "quality" instead of "quantity" growth (such as Pinewood studios, etc) Outside of the city limits of Fayette's cities, the minimum lot size is over an acre I believe.
At present, all 3 are stagnant. The northern suburbs didn't stop growing with the recession. But at some point the fast growth has to spread elsewhere. I just don't think it will be out I-20.
That 411 extension wasn't the "residents" stopping it. It was one very rich, powerful family that opposed the road going through their land. It was the Rollins who founded Terminix. There were some articles about it in the AJC a couple of years ago.
The locals of much more modest means have not exactly been clamoring for that road to be built along the route that the powerful Rollins family opposed.
The desired GDOT route that the Rollins family successfully opposed would have taken the 411-75 Connector through the Dobbins Mountain area, which is an area that almost all of the locals in that area consider to be a historic site.
The Rollins seemed to have pretty broad support from the Bartow County community during their 30-year court battle to stop an unpopular road from being built through an area that most area residents considered to be a historic site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch
Yep. GDOT is currently looking at alternatives to the Rollins alignment.
GDOT is always looking at alternatives to build proposed roads that have proved to be either extremely unpopular or extremely difficult to build in the past.
Though, in this case (and in most other cases), GDOT does not necessarily seem to at the moment have the money to proceed forward with a new version of the 411-75 Connector without using tolls to pay for it....Particularly after losing a 30-year court battle in which the state spent more in litigation and court costs than would have been spent building the actual road itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
Mass transit loses 25-40% of its ridership every time there is a transfer. To be effective, transfers have to be minimized. Transfers cost time and they make the process less convenient and less simple (it doesn't have to be "complex" to discourage use). What you have to keep in mind is there may be a transfer at the start. The rider may have driven to (or been dropped off at) a bus stop. So getting from a bus to a train is a second transfer. And they may need to do a long walk or get on a local bus at the end-a third "transfer." And few will do a really long walk. Transit experts view a 1/4 mile radius as the limit that people will walk to reach transit or their destination. And in many places in Atlanta's chaotic grid, a 1/4 mile radius is pretty generous as it takes a much longer walk than that.
So every time I hear multi-modal and then see a plan forcing riders to do transfers (like the Cobb BRT, Gwinnett light rail and Clayton commuter rail that ends at East Point), it strikes me as transit just for transit, not a realistic plan that will get choice riders.
These are some excellent points....Transfers have to be (and should be) minimized for rapid transit to be the most effective.
The areas you cited that are currently proposed to receive transit extensions that would require riders to transfer off of existing MARTA HRT lines and onto either BRT, LRT or commuter rail to continue are more than heavily-developed, heavily-populated and urbanized enough to receive regional HRT/regional commuter rail service that would minimize the amount of transfers required to continue traveling through outlying high-capacity transportation corridors.
Outlying areas like Cobb (732,000 residents), Gwinnett (880,000 residents), North Fulton (approximately 350,000 residents) and Clayton (265,000 residents) are more than urbanized enough and important enough to the metro Atlanta region to receive regional high-capacity passenger rail transit service (regional HRT/high-frequency regional commuter rail service) at this point in time....And areas like Cobb, Gwinnett, North Fulton and Clayton should have been receiving high-capacity passenger rail transit service (in the form of regional HRT extensions from Atlanta) at least 2 decades ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
DC isn't a relevant comparison because the federal government is paying for it.
That is an excellent point that from a funding standpoint, the DC Metro may not necessarily be the most relevant example for Atlanta because the Feds pick-up much of the tab for transit there.
But from a standpoint of metro region size, population, suburban/exurban development patterns and social/political/cultural evolution, the DC metro area (5.9 million residents) and its extensive rail transit network are a very relevant and very important example for Atlanta to learn from.
DC is a very relevant and very important example for Atlanta because much like Atlanta, DC went through a similar transition from a sleepy, provincial Southern town to bustling cosmopolitan metro area of international importance several years before Atlanta did during the 1990's pre-Olympic period and late 1990's-early/mid 2000's post-Olympic period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
The East Bay lines of BART do go out pretty far (35-40 miles). But the Bay Area is very dense and geographically constrained for future development, neither of which apply to Atlanta.
BART's Pittsburg/Bay Point-SFO/Millbrae regional HRT line extends about 35 miles from the San Francisco Financial District, about 48 miles from the San Francisco International Airport and about 55 miles from the southern/western terminus of the line in Millbrae on the west side of San Francisco Bay.
You make a good point that the Bay Area is not a good example for Atlanta as far as constrained development patterns go.
But in terms of the need to provide heavily-populated outlying outer-suburban and exurban areas with high-capacity regional rail transit, the Bay Area is a great example for Atlanta to learn from.
The Bay Area is also a good example for Atlanta because, while Atlanta may not have any physical barriers to future development like much of the Bay Area has, Atlanta does have some very notable political barriers to future development in the form of a severely-constrained road network that the North Georgia public refuses to allow continued expansion of on a large-scale.
The BART Pittsburg/Bay Point-SFO/Millbrae regional HRT line is a good example for future metro Atlanta area high-capacity rail transit expansions because the line operates through some very low-density outer-suburban and exurban areas between the higher-density Rockbridge and Walnut Creek BART stations and east of the North Concord/Martinez BART station on the east side of the Bay.
Like BART early-on and the DC Metro in later years, Atlanta's MARTA was originally intended to be a regional HRT system that serves both higher-density developed areas at the core of the Atlanta metro area and lower-density developed areas on the periphery of the Atlanta metro area.
MARTA was also originally intended to be a regional HRT system that functioned as a regional commuter rail system (much like most of Northern California's BART regional HRT system) that expanded into the lower-density outer-suburbs and exurbs as the Atlanta metro area continued to grow and expand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2
Dallas is more like Atlanta, but still denser, and has the longest light rail system in the US. They have rail lines out to Plano and DFW Airport. But that is only about 20 miles. They also have pretty low usage. Their boardings per mile are below 1200. Only a few cities have lower figures among the top 25 light rail systems (Baltimore, New Orleans trolley, Pittsburg, St. Louis, San Jose, Sacramento). Portland is 2,190 per mile. Houston is 3,539. LA is 2,856. Atlanta's heavy rail is 48 miles and 4,876 per mile. List of United States light rail systems by ridership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For Atlanta, Alpharetta is 26 miles and Kennesaw 27, both further than anyplace connected to DART. Athens is 59 miles, Gainesville 55 and Canton 41, the latter 3 further than anyplace connected to BART. If much denser and constrained San Francisco isn't doing it, I don't see how it could make sense for Atlanta. By comparison, the densities of the urbanized areas:
San Francisco 6,266 per square mile
Dallas 2,879
Atlanta 1,706
Like I noted before, BART's Pittsburg/Bay Point-SFO/Millbrae regional HRT line extends out 48 miles from San Francisco's Financial District, which is the historic center of gravity for what has become a multi-nodal large major metro region in the Bay Area.
BART's Pittsburg/Bay Point-SFO/Millbrae regional HRT line also operates over a total distance of 55 miles between the Pittsburg/Bay Point BART Station in the Sacramento River Valley area east of the San Francisco Bay and the Millbrae BART Station south of San Francisco International Airport west of the Bay on the San Francisco Peninsula.
The intersection of the VA 267 Dulles Greenway toll road and VA 772 in the Ryan/Ashburn area of outer-suburban Loudoun County, which will be the western terminus of the DC Metro Silver Line, is about 33 miles or so from Downtown Washington DC and about 41 miles from the eastern terminus of the line at Largo Town Center just east and outside of the I-95/495 Capital Beltway in suburban Maryland.
At about 26 and 27 miles from Downtown Atlanta, respectively, heavily-developed, heavily-populated and explosively fast-growing outlying areas like Alpharetta and Kennesaw are well inside of that 41-mile operating range that the DC Metro Silver HRT Line will serve upon completion and the 55-mile operating range of BART's Pittsburg/Bay Point-SFO/Millbrae regional HRT line.
Because Canton has already been targeted for regional Light Rail Transit service to and from Downtown Atlanta in past ARC Concept 3 studies and because Canton is only 41 miles from Downtown Atlanta and because I-575 is prone to long traffic delays during peak traffic hours, Canton should be the northern terminus of a regional HRT line extending north from the world-leading ATL Airport by way of Central Atlanta and the I-75/I-575 Northwest Corridor.
Because Gainesville is only about 55 miles from Downtown Atlanta, and because Gainesville-South/Central Hall County (along with Gwinnett and DeKalb counties) generates much of the heavy traffic that plagues I-85 through Northeast Metro Atlanta between Downtown Atlanta and Buford, and because Gainesville is such a very important city in both Northeast Metro Atlanta and in the Northeast Georgia Mountains region, Gainesville should most likely be the northern terminus of a regional HRT line extending north from the world-leading ATL Airport by way of Central Atlanta and the I-85/I-985 Northeast Corridor.
Athens is actually about 70 miles or so from Downtown Atlanta.
...But because Athens is a city of great importance in Northeast Georgia and in the state of Georgia as a whole (because Athens is the home of the state flagship higher education institution at the University of Georgia and is a regional center of activity for Northeast and East-Central Georgia), Athens should most definitely receive some type of very robust high-frequency regional commuter rail service....Preferably some high-frequency regional commuter rail service that is capable of high speeds, particularly along the less-developed Dacula-Athens portion of the corridor.
The closer-in portion of an ATL Airport-Atlanta-Athens high-frequency regional high-capacity passenger rail transit line should definitely receive a regional HRT-level of rail transit service (between the ATL Airport and Dacula).
In any case, the Atlanta metro region is a fast-growing large major metro region with a current population of about 6.3 million residents that is projected to grow to between 8-10 million residents (about the current population of the Chicago metro or "Chicagoland" region) within the next 2 decades or so.
The Atlanta region has great difficulty handling the movements of its current 6.3 million population on its current inadequate and severely-constrained regional road network.
There is no way that the Atlanta region will be able to handle the logistical movements for a population of 8-10 million residents on its current inadequate regional road network without a very-strong regional high-capacity transit option.
This could change in time, the Midtown stations are getting what the rest of the line needs.there are still a lot of people that live ITP, but dont live near stations and there isnt many options to do so, finding housing really close to a station, without being in the hood is a science. If what is happening to the Midtown and King Memorial stations can happen to the other stations, many people would use it. I guess im just one of the few that feels expanding out of 285 is a waste. Get all 36 station super busy, than make the expansions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden
Here's a bit of Peach overload for y'all!
Compare to:
BlackPeach2 makes an excellent point that the focus for an agency like MARTA should be in making all the existing stations along the MARTA HRT system busy and profitable with ridership-generating and revenue-generating large-scale TOD's (Transit-Oriented Developments) on the property that MARTA owns at, around and above its stations.
fourthwarden's excellent self-made regional rail transit expansion maps with regional commuter rail transit lines being represented with the color pink sort of illustrates the contrast in transit needs for the inner-surburban, outer-suburban and exurban areas outside of the I-285 Perimeter and the more urban areas inside of the I-285 Perimeter.
With the difference in logistical/transit needs between the suburban/exurban area OTP and the urban area ITP being vividly outlined and illustrated time and again on this board and throughout many facets of Georgia life, one idea that could help better serve the differing interests of more suburban and exurban OTPers and more urban ITPers could be to have 2 (or more) different regional high-capacity transit systems for the area inside of I-285 and the area outside of I-285.
Under a future expanded regional high-capacity transit scheme, MARTA could continue to operate HRT service in its current service area in Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton counties.
GRTA/Georgia Regional Transit Agency (who currently operates much of the Atlanta region's suburban commuter/express bus network) could focus on providing high-capacity transit service (regional HRT, regional commuter rail, regional BRT and regional commuter bus service).
Under this two-tiered regional operating scheme GRTA and MARTA HRT trains would operate along the same tracks (tracks expanded to handle a vastly-increased level of HRT service) along some stretches of HRT track but would largely operate along their own HRT track alignments in many areas.
(...MARTA HRT trains and GRTA regional HRT trains would share the same tracks and stations along the existing MARTA Red/Gold lines between the Airport and the Doraville MARTA Station...)
(...MARTA and GRTA HRT trains would also share the same tracks and stations along the existing MARTA Blue/Green lines between the existing H.E. Holmes and Avondale MARTA stations...)
(...GRTA would be responsible for funding and/or operating high-capacity passenger rail transit service (regional HRT, regional commuter rail, regional BRT and regional commuter bus service) everywhere else outside of the existing MARTA HRT service area.)
(...GRTA would also takeover responsibility for funding and operating the current MARTA Red Line which is in serious need of expansion to Windward Parkway and beyond....The current MARTA Red Line would become a GRTA regional HRT line under this two-tiered expanded regional high-capacity transit scheme...)
(...Under this two-tiered regional transit expansion scheme GRTA would be responsible for funding and operating new high-capacity passenger rail transit service (preferably regional HRT service) along the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter between Doraville and Cumberland and beyond up the I-75 NW and I-85 NE corridors...)
(....GRTA would also be responsible for funding any new high-capacity passenger rail transit service between Atlanta and Cobb County.)
Having a two-tiered regional high-capacity transit system would likely allow the pressing transit needs of both urbanites and suburban/exurbanites to be addressed much more fully than attempting to service both ITP and OTP areas with only one regional high-capacity transit system.
Having a two-tiered regional high-capacity transit system would likely allow the pressing transit needs of both urbanites and suburban/exurbanites to be addressed much more fully than attempting to service both ITP and OTP areas with only one regional high-capacity transit system.
You also unnecessarily duplicate a lot of management/operation infrastructure. It would be far better, were regional operations to take place, and ESPECIALLY if they were to share rails, to just fold the two together. There is no need to layer bureaucracies when one agency has more than enough capability of running one type of transit.
A good example of this is the Atlanta Streetcar / Atlanta Beltline and the Clifton Corridor. MARTA will be adding a whole new layer of operations with the addition of their LRT service, which would have to be handled as a new section of their operations center (they have the main room split into Bus and Rail sections, however all of their rail is run as HRT). What could (i'm not sure yet if it should, but it's an idea) happen, is that the Clifton Corridor is added as an extension of the Beltline Loop trains. The two modes are already planned to intersect at Linbergh Center anyway. This lets ABI simply expand their operations a little as opposed to making MARTA manage a whole new stack of operations.
You also unnecessarily duplicate a lot of management/operation infrastructure. It would be far better, were regional operations to take place, and ESPECIALLY if they were to share rails, to just fold the two together. There is no need to layer bureaucracies when one agency has more than enough capability of running one type of transit.
A good example of this is the Atlanta Streetcar / Atlanta Beltline and the Clifton Corridor. MARTA will be adding a whole new layer of operations with the addition of their LRT service, which would have to be handled as a new section of their operations center (they have the main room split into Bus and Rail sections, however all of their rail is run as HRT). What could (i'm not sure yet if it should, but it's an idea) happen, is that the Clifton Corridor is added as an extension of the Beltline Loop trains. The two modes are already planned to intersect at Linbergh Center anyway. This lets ABI simply expand their operations a little as opposed to making MARTA manage a whole new stack of operations.
I agree that ideally, both a MARTA and a GRTA should be folded together.
....But the differing politics of the Atlanta region do not necessarily allow for two metropolitan transit agencies like MARTA and GRTA to be folded together at this time.
Atlanta would not be the first very large major metro region to have two or more large metro/regional transit agencies providing high-capacity transit service to different parts of a metro region.
New York City notably has multiple transit agencies providing transit service to different parts of the greater metro region.
> The NYC Subway provides HRT service to the area inside of the corporate limits of New York City...
> The Long Island Railroad (LIRR) provides very high-frequency regional commuter rail service to Long Island...
> The Metro North Railroad provides very high-frequency regional commuter rail service to suburbs and exurbs north of NYC...
> The Port Authority operates trains, buses and ferries through water crossings over, under and on the Hudson River between the states of NY and NJ...
> The Staten Island Ferry provides ferry service to/from Staten Island...
> The Staten Island Railway provides an HRT line on Staten Island...and...
> NJ Transit provides Light Rail Transit and regional commuter rail service throughout the North New Jersey suburbs and exurbs west of NYC.
Chicago has four major transit agencies that provide transit service for the Chicago (Chicagoland) region...
> CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) provides bus and HRT service for the City of Chicago and its closest inner-suburbs...
> Metra provides regional commuter rail service for most of the Chicago region and a couple of Wisconsin outer-suburbs north of Chicago along I-94...
> The South Shore Line provides commuter rail service over a distance of about 95 miles between Downtown Chicago and exurban South Bend, Indiana...
> Pace provides bus service to suburbs mostly outside of the I-294 Tri-State Tollway bypass (a bypass road that is somewhat similar to Atlanta's I-285 Perimeter loop superhighway).
Washington DC has 3 major transit agencies that provide transit service in its metro area...
> The DC Metro provides local and regional HRT service...
> MARC (Maryland Area Regional Commuter rail) provides regional commuter rail service between Downtown Washington DC and its Maryland suburbs...
> VRE (Virginia Regional Express) provides regional commuter rail service between Downtown Washington DC and its Northern Virginia suburbs and exurbs.
Toronto has 2 major transit agencies in the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) that provides bus, LRT and HRT service in Toronto's urban core and GO Transit which provides bus and regional commuter rail service throughout the greater Toronto metro region.
In any case, I am not necessarily sure that trying to force both the mostly ITP urban core and the mostly OTP suburbs and exurbs of the Atlanta region into one large singular region transit agency may be the right approach....Particularly when both the urban core and outlying suburbs/exurbs have differing transit needs, wants and desires.
In the end, I think that all transit in the greater Atlanta metro region, both urban and suburban/urban should be funded by the State of Georgia through very large-scale P3's (Public-Private Partnerships), distance-based fares, Value Capture taxing and TODs.
But trying to force MARTA-style urban transit service onto the suburbs/exurbs and/or trying to force GRTA-style suburban/exurban transit service onto the urban core just does not seem to be a winning formula for transit expansion in metro Atlanta and North Georgia.
Some of the other aforementioned large major metro areas like NYC, Chicago, Washington and Toronto had significant differences in the transit needs of their suburbs/exurbs and urban cores, which is why they operate different transit systems for their suburbs/exurbs and urban cores (and even operate different transit systems for different parts of their suburban/exurban areas).
Boston is an example of a large major metro region where both the urban core bus/HRT service and suburban bus/commuter rail service (along with ferry service) is operated by one large regional transit service in MBTA (Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority).....But Boston and Massachusetts have a political environment that is vastly-different from Atlanta and Georgia.
Well many of those systems involve different states.
Atlanta involves one metro area in one state.
I think the 5 core counties need to be in one system. The polls indicate that most of Gwinnett favors joining MARTA. That just leaves Cobb County. You deal with the politics by making sure one area doesn't have too much influence. The population is spread around enough that can be done by making seats based on population.
I don't think the rest of the metro needs to be in MARTA. Only Fayette, Douglass and Cherokee would make any sense for transit in any reasonable time frame and they aren't essential.
I agree that ideally, both a MARTA and a GRTA should be folded together.
....But the differing politics of the Atlanta region do not necessarily allow for two metropolitan transit agencies like MARTA and GRTA to be folded together at this time.
Atlanta would not be the first very large major metro region to have two or more large metro/regional transit agencies providing high-capacity transit service to different parts of a metro region.
New York City notably has multiple transit agencies providing transit service to different parts of the greater metro region.
> The NYC Subway provides HRT service to the area inside of the corporate limits of New York City...
> The Long Island Railroad (LIRR) provides very high-frequency regional commuter rail service to Long Island...
> The Metro North Railroad provides very high-frequency regional commuter rail service to suburbs and exurbs north of NYC...
> The Port Authority operates trains, buses and ferries through water crossings over, under and on the Hudson River between the states of NY and NJ...
> The Staten Island Ferry provides ferry service to/from Staten Island...
> The Staten Island Railway provides an HRT line on Staten Island...and...
> NJ Transit provides Light Rail Transit and regional commuter rail service throughout the North New Jersey suburbs and exurbs west of NYC.
Chicago has four major transit agencies that provide transit service for the Chicago (Chicagoland) region...
> CTA (Chicago Transit Authority) provides bus and HRT service for the City of Chicago and its closest inner-suburbs...
> Metra provides regional commuter rail service for most of the Chicago region and a couple of Wisconsin outer-suburbs north of Chicago along I-94...
> The South Shore Line provides commuter rail service over a distance of about 95 miles between Downtown Chicago and exurban South Bend, Indiana...
> Pace provides bus service to suburbs mostly outside of the I-294 Tri-State Tollway bypass (a bypass road that is somewhat similar to Atlanta's I-285 Perimeter loop superhighway).
Washington DC has 3 major transit agencies that provide transit service in its metro area...
> The DC Metro provides local and regional HRT service...
> MARC (Maryland Area Regional Commuter rail) provides regional commuter rail service between Downtown Washington DC and its Maryland suburbs...
> VRE (Virginia Regional Express) provides regional commuter rail service between Downtown Washington DC and its Northern Virginia suburbs and exurbs.
Toronto has 2 major transit agencies in the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) that provides bus, LRT and HRT service in Toronto's urban core and GO Transit which provides bus and regional commuter rail service throughout the greater Toronto metro region.
In any case, I am not necessarily sure that trying to force both the mostly ITP urban core and the mostly OTP suburbs and exurbs of the Atlanta region into one large singular region transit agency may be the right approach....Particularly when both the urban core and outlying suburbs/exurbs have differing transit needs, wants and desires.
In the end, I think that all transit in the greater Atlanta metro region, both urban and suburban/urban should be funded by the State of Georgia through very large-scale P3's (Public-Private Partnerships), distance-based fares, Value Capture taxing and TODs.
But trying to force MARTA-style urban transit service onto the suburbs/exurbs and/or trying to force GRTA-style suburban/exurban transit service onto the urban core just does not seem to be a winning formula for transit expansion in metro Atlanta and North Georgia.
Some of the other aforementioned large major metro areas like NYC, Chicago, Washington and Toronto had significant differences in the transit needs of their suburbs/exurbs and urban cores, which is why they operate different transit systems for their suburbs/exurbs and urban cores (and even operate different transit systems for different parts of their suburban/exurban areas).
Boston is an example of a large major metro region where both the urban core bus/HRT service and suburban bus/commuter rail service (along with ferry service) is operated by one large regional transit service in MBTA (Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority).....But Boston and Massachusetts have a political environment that is vastly-different from Atlanta and Georgia.
It's important to note that none of the HRT services share extended sections of track (they may within stations, but I don't think so), as you were suggesting. The commuter rail is a bit of a different deal since the North East Corridor, where there're the most overlaps, It's either Nationally (Amtrak) owned, or state DOT owned (save the MTA section).
What you were suggesting with GRTA operating HRT on MARTA tracks just screams operational nightmare to me. Especially in the political climate that you mentioned. There's no need to try and wedge the systems together. If GRTA got commuter rail set up, that'd be one thing, but HRT is one heck of a stretch.
Well many of those systems involve different states.
Atlanta involves one metro area in one state.
I think the 5 core counties need to be in one system. The polls indicate that most of Gwinnett favors joining MARTA. That just leaves Cobb County. You deal with the politics by making sure one area doesn't have too much influence. The population is spread around enough that can be done by making seats based on population.
I don't think the rest of the metro needs to be in MARTA. Only Fayette, Douglass and Cherokee would make any sense for transit in any reasonable time frame and they aren't essential.
I'm a fan of ARC's 10 County Metro:
Cherokee
Clayton
Cobb
Dekalb
Douglas
Fayette
Fulton
Gwinett
Henry
Rockdale
Last edited by fourthwarden; 06-10-2015 at 07:49 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
