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Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,108,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taphest
Have you ever wished you made more money, married rich or was due to collect on a large inheritance? Not for the sake of being cast on one of the reality tv housewives shows, but so you could have access to the best money can buy? Since researching the Atlanta area for a nice place for my family to live, I am constantly reminded in every way imaginable that our money is just not good money. Simply put- we don't make enough money for our family to live the type of lifestyle we feel we've worked extremely hard for. Now, I'm certainly not looking for a mansion on a hill by any stretch, but we should be able to afford a nice home in a safe neighborhood with great schools without having to commit to a 2-hour commute to work everyday. Please stop me, if I'm starting to sound like a cry baby, but all of the more desirable homes have either a hefty price tag or crappy schools to complete the deal, and we simply can't afford private school with all of the other activities we'd like to do with our family. While it would be nice if everyone could afford this same access, I especially feel that when you graduate college, get married and do all that is expected of you, the pay-off should be a happy life with access to some of the best that life has to offer. When will things level out? I apologize for ranting. I guess I'm finding it a little disheartening to show up at the store with 15 cents only to discover that everything in it costs $1 .
What do you consider to be an acceptable area? Or an acceptable lifestyle? And how do you evaluate schools? National lists? Something else?
We live in a nice area in SE Cobb with decent schools (good elementary and middle schools and a middling high school with an excellent IB program), and our commutes are 5 and 8 miles on sideroads (no interstates). Our house in a safe wooded subdivision with a pool and tennis, and in 2005 we paid less than $250k for the 4BR 2.5bath home that we live in. It's worth maybe $215-220k now. There are houses available in our area right now for the same pricepoint.
Simply put- we don't make enough money for our family to live the type of lifestyle we feel we've worked extremely hard for. Now, I'm certainly not looking for a mansion on a hill by any stretch, but we should be able to afford a nice home in a safe neighborhood with great schools without having to commit to a 2-hour commute to work everyday.
You're not listing the price range of home you're looking for or your income (yes, it's personal), but it gives a better idea of your problem for those reading.
But the fact is, Atlanta has some of the lower home prices of all the larger cities right now. A "nice" home in a "nice" neighborhood can be found for well under $250,000 right now in several areas - and none of them are two hours out of the City. But it depends on what you consider "nice" to be, exactly. Two story four sided brick with a 3 car garage and 5 bedrooms? No - not in this large city or any other unless you're willing to shell out a lot more $$, or live in a soso quality-built home in a soso neighborhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by taphest
I especially feel that when you graduate college, get married and do all that is expected of you, the pay-off should be a happy life with access to some of the best that life has to offer.
A Realtor friend of mine calls this the, "Real Housewives of Atlanta mentality". (not a personal jab - explained below).
Getting a college degree, getting married, and having children does not automatically earn anyone a golden ticket to have "access to some of the best that life has to offer". You have to earn it by climbing life's ladder step-by-step.
Most people who achieve "the best" do so by doing the following:
1) Getting an education in a solid sought-after field.
2) Establishing an entry-level position in that field while renting an apartment and owning a used car.
3) Climbing the ladder in their respective field position by position as earned by work merits and achievements. Still renting, still saving money, still driving that used car.
*** Note that during this moving up in the world and saving money period of one's life, children have as of yet not come into the equation ***
4) Entering the "good" earnings area of your career. Deciding on starting a family with your spouse/partner and doing so. Still driving the used car to save money for a home down payment.
5) Baby enters the scene - house hunt begins for a good STARTER home - typically should be a smaller 3BR/2BA in the 1500-2200 square foot range.
6) Family slowly grows in the starter home - parents further establish their careers and save more money without "splurging" on new cars/SUVs, vacations, designer clothing, etc. As the family saves/matures, then they are able to upgrade to a nicer, better, larger home - etc etc and so the story goes.
What the "typical" family of 2011 (still) seems to do:
1) Graduate from college.
2) Buy a new car/SUV, have a child (or two) with partner, look for their first job in the career they degreed for, and then try to find a 3400 square foot 4BR/3BA home with granite countertops and a 3 car garage, in Brookhaven.... all within one year or two of graduation of college. And their mentality is that they have "earned" or "deserve" it.
Again - that's a reality show thought pattern, and it's exactly the reason we're in a depression right now, and why the housing/lending market went nutso the way it did. Far too many people who "deserved" the best things in life (the way they saw it) decided to get those best things, when they had not yet really earned them by doing their time in the game of life. Then they are confused as to why things don't work out for them they way they think they should.
This is once again, not a personal jab. What you're experiencing is what many are right now. But the reality is, if as you said earlier, you "did everything you're supposed to do", and you did them within the reasonable time frame and by climbing the ladders properly, in order, as financial experts say you should - then you shouldn't have any trouble finding a really nice house in a really nice school area. But if you tried to skip a few of those steps or have tried to climb the ladder of status too quickly compared to what you have truly earned, then no, you're not going to find it in any medium to large sized city regardless of the economy.
Rethink what "the best that life offers things" are to you to have. If these include new cars, vacations, finer dining restaurants, and designer clothing, you might need to re-evaluate what is and what is not "deserved" and focus more on the house in a good school zone. Just an opinion based on very little actual personal info, but what many people are doing now.
You're not listing the price range of home you're looking for or your income (yes, it's personal), but it gives a better idea of your problem for those reading.
Rethink what "the best that life offers things" are to you to have. If these include new cars, vacations, finer dining restaurants, and designer clothing, you might need to re-evaluate what is and what is not "deserved" and focus more on the house in a good school zone. Just an opinion based on very little actual personal info, but what many people are doing now.
- end of sermon.
I did not attend church today, so I appreciated reading your sermon while sipping on a cup of tea.
I did not include my criteria for my home search in my post b/c I already have a similar post addressing this issue. Although you make some really valid points in your post, the majority of responders seem to be missing my point. I wasn't asking anyone to help me figure out how to make a dollar out of fifteen cents. I was simply sharing my frustration with never seeming to have enough for all the things that I want for my family. Certainly, there are some things on my list that we can do without, but I have been paying my dues for all these years and I am ready to collect.
Your post prompted me to ask myself what I really can/can't do without- which has been part of my frustration. I think a hardworking person should be able to have most of the things included on your "the best that life offers things" list. So I guess I am guilty of having a "housewives" mentality. What I will say is I have not put the cart before the horse and, although I have not necessarily followed your "things to do first list" in the exact order presented, I have paid my dues. I think the only thing I am really guilty of (unfortunately) is following my heart when choosing a career field and husband instead of chasing dollars.
I did not attend church today, so I appreciated reading your sermon while sipping on a cup of tea.
I did not include my criteria for my home search in my post b/c I already have a similar post addressing this issue. Although you make some really valid points in your post, the majority of responders seem to be missing my point. I wasn't asking anyone to help me figure out how to make a dollar out of fifteen cents. I was simply sharing my frustration with never seeming to have enough for all the things that I want for my family. Certainly, there are some things on my list that we can do without, but I have been paying my dues for all these years and I am ready to collect.
Your post prompted me to ask myself what I really can/can't do without- which has been part of my frustration. I think a hardworking person should be able to have most of the things included on your "the best that life offers things" list. So I guess I am guilty of having a "housewives" mentality. What I will say is I have not put the cart before the horse and, although I have not necessarily followed your "things to do first list" in the exact order presented, I have paid my dues. I think the only thing I am really guilty of (unfortunately) is following my heart when choosing a career field and husband instead of chasing dollars.
taphest,
As one of your responders, I don't think we've been missing your point. It's just that we've been politely beating around the bush. Here's the blunter version.
Real life does not come with any kind of guarantee that "paying your dues" will get you what you want. The idea that "a hardworking person should be able to have most of the things included on your 'the best that life offers things' list" is sheer fantasy. The world, even the USA, is full of hard-working people who do not have much of "the best life offers", materially speaking. The fact that this is not obvious to you leads me to suspect you've been getting your ideas about the lifestyle to which you and your family are entitled from TV shows or some other kind of fiction that depicts much nicer lifestyles than middle-income people can afford in the real world.
I agree with you that this isn't about managing your money well. It's clearly about not being rich enough for your taste. And yes, if being rich was that important to you, then apparently you made choices of husband and career that weren't in line with your priorities.
I agree with Greg that a lot of people had expectations like yours in recent years (so you're far from alone in your thinking), but unfortunately those unrealistic expectations were a key ingredient of the widespread financial crisis. It's 2011 and the reality is that you're well off just as you are.
Maybe a tad bit blunter: You do what you can until you can do better. Obviously all that you have done in life has not yet afforded you the lifestyle you would like to have. Your job now is to ask, what ELSE can I do to work torwards the goals I have in mind. Keep in mind the way goals work is that you will have DELAYED gratification, won't happen right away. You seem like you're young. You have plenty of time to change your life. What you must realize now is that you just simply have not done enough to live the upper middle class materialistic lifestyle you seek. Once you realize you're not dying and you have time to do more, I think you'll start feeling alot better.
And I understand that this thread is just so you can rant. Everyone feels as you do at one time or another. Some people decide they are happy with how far they have made it in life. Others sacrifice even more to go further or rather to obtain more. You have to ask yourself what is important to you. Would the time taken away from your family so you can go to grad school and earn an advanced degree so that you can buy more be worthit? Would scraping and saving for months or years so you can start your own company be worthit? Life is about give and take. To get something you gotta give up something. If getting into a higher class is that important to you sit down and focus on what you can DO to get there. I wish you the best of luck.
In commission sales you decide on the income. It's risk and reward. You don't have to have a high school diploma to sell stocks, real estate, insurance or some other products. All it takes to get in the door is passing a test and having a relatively clean background.
Most people who achieve "the best" do so by doing the following:
1) Getting an education in a solid sought-after field.
2) Establishing an entry-level position in that field while renting an apartment and owning a used car.
3) Climbing the ladder in their respective field position by position as earned by work merits and achievements. Still renting, still saving money, still driving that used car.
*** Note that during this moving up in the world and saving money period of one's life, children have as of yet not come into the equation ***
4) Entering the "good" earnings area of your career. Deciding on starting a family with your spouse/partner and doing so. Still driving the used car to save money for a home down payment.
5) Baby enters the scene - house hunt begins for a good STARTER home - typically should be a smaller 3BR/2BA in the 1500-2200 square foot range.
6) Family slowly grows in the starter home - parents further establish their careers and save more money without "splurging" on new cars/SUVs, vacations, designer clothing, etc. As the family saves/matures, then they are able to upgrade to a nicer, better, larger home - etc etc and so the story goes.
I agree with most of this list. It boils down to making sacrifices and setting goals. Many people are too lazy or don't believe in themselves enough to set the goals and stick with them. They let things get in the way or get distracted, or they listen to the people who tell them that they can't do it. People also fail to plan, even if they have general goals. Success in life doesn't happen by accident. You have to make large goals and plan along the way as to how you will achieve them.
I know some folks on this forum will knock me or claim that my response is simplistic, but I firmly believe that the formula for success is simple. Executing on that formula can be very difficult, but the formula is pretty. I believe anyone has the opportunity to be as successful as they want to be and are willing to work to be.
If you come from money or have other head starts or handicaps, then it may be less difficult or more difficult for you, and that's the real world (which isn't fair), but anyone who is willing to stick with their goals and has the natural ability to achieve them, can achieve them.
Notice that nowhere did I say that success = money or material things. Success is whatever you deem it to be, but the strategy for achieving it is essentially the same, although the tactics may be different.
Notice that nowhere did I say that success = money or material things. Success is whatever you deem it to be, but the strategy for achieving it is essentially the same, although the tactics may be different.
Maybe a tad bit blunter: You do what you can until you can do better. Obviously all that you have done in life has not yet afforded you the lifestyle you would like to have. Your job now is to ask, what ELSE can I do to work torwards the goals I have in mind. Keep in mind the way goals work is that you will have DELAYED gratification, won't happen right away. You seem like you're young. You have plenty of time to change your life. What you must realize now is that you just simply have not done enough to live the upper middle class materialistic lifestyle you seek. Once you realize you're not dying and you have time to do more, I think you'll start feeling alot better.
And I understand that this thread is just so you can rant. Everyone feels as you do at one time or another. Some people decide they are happy with how far they have made it in life. Others sacrifice even more to go further or rather to obtain more. You have to ask yourself what is important to you. Would the time taken away from your family so you can go to grad school and earn an advanced degree so that you can buy more be worthit? Would scraping and saving for months or years so you can start your own company be worthit? Life is about give and take. To get something you gotta give up
something. If getting into a higher class is that important to you sit down and focus on what
you can DO to get there. I wish you the best of luck.
I appreciate you all (responders) for your candor, and I agree with most of what was written here. Perhaps, this is part of my problem (according to how many of you see it), but I don't think I'm materialistic at all. After reading your posts, I actually sat down and revisited our priorities list, which I will share:
1. Nice house (2002 or newer, $250k, well built, partially finished basement, 3000+ sf, gourmet kit, 4br) in a relatively safe neighborhood in a good school district as indicated by annual stdzd national test scores, programs offered and school visit.
2. One annual family vacation.
3. Prefer private school, but willing to settle for a good public school.
4. Money to contribute twd our retirement fund.
5. Money for regular shopping to buy regular things (furniture, clothes, electronics, etc) w/o having to save first or penny pinch.
6. A luxury car for me since I'm on my 3rd Honda Accord. This is in no means a must-have; however, hubby agreed we could do this when/if times are good.
That's our list in a nutshell. Well, what do you think? Am I materialistic, living in a fantasy or not?
As for age...I don't know what you consider young, but I am 41 with a graduate degree. Keep in mind, part of my panic comes from realizing we're in a recession; therefore we have agreed to public school and a little less expensive house to play it safe and to ensure we're living w/i our means. Neither of us have jobs lined up in Atlanta as of yet, so we're (again) preducting our salaries to be on the lower end just in case.
We may be jumping the gun in that we're relocating to the area during a recession and we're already trying to set up shop. Well, hubby is retiring from the military after 22 years of service at the end of the year and we know this may be the ideal
time to buy, if I can get there and find a job. We anticipate things being tough for awhile- at least until we both land the jobs we want and the recession blows over. Keep the feedback coming...
To the OP- I feel the same way. You always hear about how you should go to school, get good grades, work hard, go to college and then you'll be able to get a better job. I don't know how old you are but I went to college, worked hard for good grades (as did my boyfriend) now that we've graduated, we can't find good jobs. Or in his case, any in his field. I had my first dose of reality at age 25, when I realized my bachelor's degree (in business) isn't worth anything.
Its just so disheartening to work so hard...for what?
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